Help! I don't speak Parelli.....

T

Thyme & Me

New Member
Nov 23, 2011
1,427
0
0
But my new horse does!

Thyme is 3. After letting her settle in for a few of days I took her into the outdoor sand-school to get her used to lunge lines, and to teach her to lunge. She was totally un-bothered by the lines so that was fine. But she turned to face me as soon as I led her into the school, instead of standing alongside, and looked expectantly at me. She then followed my every move. If I stepped away she stepped towards. If I moved towards her she stepped back, if I went alongside she pirouetted to keep me constantly right in front of her. All very clever and responsive and lovely. Just not what I wanted!

Okay, back to basics: Teach her to stand still in her own space first so I can move away from her. This was hard! She simply would not stop following my every move in any direction, and was clearly becoming frustrated with me for constantly moving her feet back to their original start position. I then remembered something I had read in Mark Rashid's Aikido & Horsemanship book, about visualisations & centre of gravity etc. Essentially I think he was saying that you can move energy round the body and centre it in certain places. And horses can too. And we can influence this in horses somehow or other - possibly because our body language changes and our intent becomes clearer when we use visualisation. Anyway, I visualised Thyme's feet rooted to the ground and her centre of gravity in her girth area pushing down keeping her solidly in one place. Then stepped away. Hurray - to my surprise (I had been somewhat skeptical about this!) - she never moved and I was able to move away and back to end up facing her left hip. Then I asked her to move forward (so I thought) but she instead immediately disengaged her hindquarters and stepped round to face me again! ARRGGHH. Tried that a few more times. Nothing doing.

Plan c? (d. e..._) Hmm..... It's easier to direct movement than initiate it, she is happy to move towards me..... So I rooted her feet again, moved away, then encouraged her forward, and as she approached me I directed her onwards, past me. Bingo, we were circling. :dance:

So we got there in the end. But I know Parelli trained horses are perfectly capabale of circling. It's one of the fundamental games iirc. We just aren;t speaking the same langauge at the moment. So do I just continue teaching her things MY way, or should I learn her language - at least at the beginning - to avoid frustruation for her. If the latter - how? I am not interested in going the Parelli route in any significant way - ie follow the levels etc. (If people want to know why, then can we do a separate thread on it, pretty please, and not divert this one on to a pro & anti PNH fight.....)

Any advice?

:twins:
 
personally i would be altering the way you ask. Mine and Moets groundwork has always been Parelli based but i can still circle/lunge without any issue, i have gradually changed the way i do things now. I still just 'lunge' and use a Pessoa etc, i always have a halter underneath and clip onto that not the bit.

i find the main differences between how i 'lunge' and how others on the yard lunge are:

1. they have a shorter 'tighter' rope - i allow more length.
2. i do not 'chase' or 'follow' Moet with an 'active' whip - my whip is relaxed touching the floor unless i am asking for an upwards transition - my body and voice are relaxed/quiet too unless asking for a change.
3. when i start Moet off i have her facing me at a distance (a couple of meters is sufficient at least) - i point the direction i want her to go and she goes, if she's sluggish i direct the whip at her neck/shoulder to encourage movement in the correct direction.
4. if she walks towards me i direct 'back' energy towards her with my body and wiggle the rope until she stands/goes backwards.

Honest its really enjoyable and far less work involved! I generally dont do any other Parelli games now, we have never done any levels and have developed our own way of doing things. I dont stand in the circle and let her circle me, i do a small doughnut watching her way of going but i do not 'chase/follow' in the same way as others do on the yard.

did you have trouble with her disengaging and walking towards you off the circle when she was out going round? or did she just keep going until you asked her in?

I stop Moet in halt immediately (from walk/trot) by saying Whoa - with Whoa she doesnt turn in. If i want her in i just bend down in the direction of her bum and she immediately turns in. If i want her to upward transition i lift the hand and point in the direction she is circling and she moves up a gear, if she is sluggish i lift up my whip out to my side (not towards her bum) and the moment she goes i drop the whip to rest on the floor.
 
Last edited:
This is interesting to me as you are seeing this behaviour when your horse wants to keep two eyes on you is the result of parelli training? My horse has always done this aswell and will quite often disengage very quickly to get me round into his sight again with both eyes on me but I don't think he's ever been parelli trained, I assume it's a lack of trust on his part - he likes me where he can see me (he's worse for it on the offside and I spent hours grooming him to get him ok with me being there.) I do like your visualisation technique though and will be trying it - thank you!
 
Flipo's Mum said:
This is interesting to me as you are seeing this behaviour when your horse wants to keep two eyes on you is the result of parelli training? My horse has always done this aswell and will quite often disengage very quickly to get me round into his sight again with both eyes on me but I don't think he's ever been parelli trained, I assume it's a lack of trust on his part - he likes me where he can see me (he's worse for it on the offside and I spent hours grooming him to get him ok with me being there.) I do like your visualisation technique though and will be trying it - thank you!
Click to expand...

see i was also thinking this - as my sisters cob (who has never had any NH training of any sort) is exactly the same if i try to lunge him (either in a traditional way or NH way), his attitude is def different though, his is calculated and saying that he really doesnt want to go around in circles (he isn't scared of anything, not nervous at all, and extremely lazy and unmotivated in the school!)

i just assumed that perhaps Charlie&Me knew that Thyme has had a Parelli background.
 
Lol, there might be a bit of lazy cob in my boy as well. I wasn't really thinking that the OP was misinterpreting her horse's movement though, just interesting that what I see with my boy is quite similar, but yes, I can imagine that there is something that differentiates the manner in which the horse turns when parelli trained as opposed to my boy doing it out of a bit of fear or laziness.
 
I dont think its to do with parelli. I think this horse is clever and has learnt that if you are at the front then its impossible to do work which she might find difficult at that age. Don't pin it as lazyness.

Take notice of her reluctance as sweet as it is and she will offer you more and more of what you want in the future once she has learnt that you listen.
 
juliecwuk said:
personally i would be altering the way you ask. Mine and Moets groundwork has always been Parelli based but i can still circle/lunge without any issue, i have gradually changed the way i do things now. I still just 'lunge' and use a Pessoa etc, i always have a halter underneath and clip onto that not the bit.

i find the main differences between how i 'lunge' and how others on the yard lunge are:

1. they have a shorter 'tighter' rope - i allow more length.
2. i do not 'chase' or 'follow' Moet with an 'active' whip - my whip is relaxed touching the floor unless i am asking for an upwards transition - my body and voice are relaxed/quiet too unless asking for a change.
3. when i start Moet off i have her facing me at a distance (a couple of meters is sufficient at least) - i point the direction i want her to go and she goes, if she's sluggish i direct the whip at her neck/shoulder to encourage movement in the correct direction.
4. if she walks towards me i direct 'back' energy towards her with my body and wiggle the rope until she stands/goes backwards.

.
Click to expand...

I agree with above^

My ponies do do similar to parelli but will still lunge etc.

and even if the horse has done parelli she should still be able to stand at the end of a rope and not come into your personal space/turn in unless invited.

It concern's me a little that she is trying to keep you at the 'front' where she can see you - that isn't necesarily a result of parelli unless it hasn't been taught particularly well - you should still be able to go and direct all area's of the horse. eg when she moves her h/q away from you when asked to yield them she should keep her front feet almost on the spot.
 
Thanks for so many helpful replies...

Yes I knew when I got her she had been started off with Parelli. Just wasn't sure how it would affect the way she did things. It was clear (it seemed though I am willing to accept I may be wrong) that this was a training/language issue, because her whole demeanour changed as we entered the school and I clipped the lunge line to her head collar. Until then we had just walked in hand, including backing her up, making her respect my boundaries, done some desensitisation to the hose (not keen!) , lots of grooming, moved her round the stable as I mucked out. All of which she responded to as any well mannered horse. But the lunge-line, sand-school triggered an 'ok I know what I'm doing' kind of attitude. She was clearly offering me responses to cues I did not know I was giving!

She is only 3 and has not done anything for months as owner broke her wrist. So I am planning to take her right back to basics.. But she clearly does know some things, which I am unfamiliar with. So she either needs to unlearn and re-learn, or I need to ask in a way she understands. I'd prefer the latter, but need a crash course in 'Parelli for Dummies'. Julie - that sounds great. But with a very young horse, how do you start off?

Shockblue- I don't think she was avoiding work. She seemed very willing. Once she was circling she was fine. I think I was just confusing her.

Today we just worked on standing still while I moved around. I didn't know the wiggly rope thing! That might have saved some time! I kept moving her back whenever she moved and saying 'stand'. (Which is how Charlie was taught to ground- tie). She got there in the end, bless her.

Incidentally I did the 'root my horse to the spot' thing with Charlie while washing his legs. He is pretty good anyway, but I reckon he was more solidly still than before! He normally shifts weight etc, but didn't really today. Maybe I am just imagining it, but I'd love to hear if anyone else has tried this!
 
Hurray. Someone I'm friendly with on the yard is experienced in Parelli. (I've not been there that long, so though we have chatted a few times, I didn't know she was a Parelli person.) Anyhow, I was taking Thyme out in-hand for a nice long explore of the village. She said she'd come too - and when I spotted the carrot stick and long lines I thought 'you are just who I need'!!

It was really helpful, for example, Thyme tries to walk one head's length in front. I thought this was a boundaries issue but she has probably been taught that way. Also she will disengage her quarters and face me if I look at her back end! Very useful to know. Thyme has already learned to walk at my shoulder, not in front so I think she'll adjust soon enough.

Did make me wonder how many 'cues' we give our horses all the time that we aren't aware of! I'm trying to be increasingly quiet around them. Not chatting, not gesturing and not daydreaming or thinking about home/work/like stuff. Just staying focussed and in the moment and trying to visualise what I want before cue-ing and then trying to be as clear as possible in how I ask. It is only in trying to reduce unwanted 'noise' that I've realised just how much of it there normally is!
 
My cob was started along the lines of Clint Anderson.
You would not actually know, people handle her as a horse.
I have added in whatever works for us, but you wouldn't know either way.

It sounds like a habit the horse has learnt. The horse is not taught to solely watch you, it is taught to move away. I know lots of horses that will turn in, instead of going forwards with lunging.

She is at the vet, they are not having trouble with her turning round and moving away. She is in headcollar and normal rope.
 
newforest said:
You would not actually know, people handle her as a horse.
I have added in whatever works for us, but you wouldn't know either way....She is at the vet, they are not having trouble with her turning round and moving away. She is in headcollar and normal rope.
Click to expand...

That's what I want, really. I am open to any approach that is fair & makes sense to horses, that helps communication and that builds a trusting relationship. But I don't want a horse who needs handling in particular ways, but one that can be handled or ridden by anyone with basic horse handling/riding ability. Thyme and I will be fine. There are just a few obvious issues (like her walking a head's length in front) that we need to iron out.

Hope Tilley is still improving at the vets. :)
 
newrider.com
Top Bottom
Back