Head tossing

[Boofle bear]

Hi and good morning, I am not sure I have wrote in the correct place but here goes!
My gelding has started to head toss when we are out on a ride, he is usually great for the first 20 mins or so but all of a sudden starts to put his head in the air and all I can here is his bit clanking on his teeth, I have a face full of horse spit yesterday, he has had his teeth done ( end of Jan this year) , I am thinking it's something I am doing or not doing ??? I am a novice rider and welcome any advice you much more experienced ladies and gents have to offer... Thanks in advance for you time and help..

 

[Skib]

Cant reply now as on train but meanwhile have you searched for this on previous threads? It is something most hackers need to deal with and I seem to remember threads on NR

 

[chunky monkey]

Does he start doing if your riding out on a relaxed, loose rein. Or is it when you have him tight on the bit. What happens if you squeeze him on in the ride does he continue or stop.
I know his teeth were done but ciuld there be any wolf teeth hiding.
I know it might sound silly but does he flick his nose out at all like something has gone up his nose. I'm thinking of headshaking. This can come in different forms, some will throw there head up and down.

 

[Wally]

I am wondering head shaking , pollen allergy, have you tried a nose net?

 

[Patchandmillie]

My thouroughbred used to do the same, put a nose net and shes a different horse completely, so i go everywhere now with hers always on, not saying it is that but always worth a go before thinking the worst x

 

[newforest]

Is it certain rides? Try avoiding country roads with hedges, go a bit more urban if safe to and see if it stops.
Our lanes have just been cut, have yours?

Have you seen him do it unridden.

 

[Boofle bear]

Hi everyone thank you for the replys, we had been out and about on country tracks first, then on to country road and it was on the way back home he started doing it, he was on a loose rein, I did wonder about teeth but then I thought he would do it more often and be a pain when tacking up, I am confused??

 

[mystiquemalaika]

My new horse does this and I found an ear bonnet settles him down and plaiting his forelock and putting a couple plaits up at the top of his mane, as he gets hotter it seems his hair starts to bother him around his ears and head and it results in extreme head throwing behaviour. If that didn't work I was going to try a nose net for pollen allergies.

 

[carthorse]

If it's always on the way home is he maybe getting tired & trying to ease his neck & back muscles?

I'd get someone to check the bit is fitted properly, I wouldn't expect to hear it hitting his teeth even if he is head tossing. It may be that on a loose rein it drops too low & is annoying him.

Also you say you're a novice rider, so are these hacks also longer ones for you? I'm just wondering if your muscles are also starting to tire a little bit & so you aren't sitting in balance as well as earlier in the ride & so are accidentally adding to the problem.

 

[Skib]

I can't assess your horse but RS horses often head shake to rid themselves of rein contact and it does tend to happen more on the way home as they are eager to get back. This head shaking is behavioural and shouldn't be confused with horses asking for a long rein in order to shake off flies, to cough or to scratch themselves. It can also be a tactic to seize a snack.
Each rider has to take a decision about how much head shaking they will tolerate . Because of the heat and the flies which are worse on the way home when the horses are sweaty and the fly repellant has worn off, I have let my hack shake her head more than the RIs like.

Because it can become a habit. In tackling it tho put your own safety first. I may well let the rein go in trot and canter as I don't want to be pulled out of the saddle. I deal with head shaking in walk. I do not give more rein and instead give a leg aid to go forward on a firm short contact. When the horse walks on for a few strides I relax my hands and give a long rein. The horse may then shake its head and one responds by shortening the rein again and repeating the above.

The idea is that head shaking triggers a rider reaction that makes life less comfortable for the horse and if the horse walks 6 steps with no head shaking you reward that by giving more rein. You will need to repeat once or twice and do this calmly as it takes a horse time to work out the learning process. On an RS horse you need to do the same thing each time you ride but after a few rides a horse will learn that you don't accept head shaking.
If you are a beginner there are positive things you can do to improve communication on a soft or long rein , so after curing the head shaking do move on to that.

 

[Boofle bear]

Thanks Iadies, I will give them all a try.... Getting back to his bit, it probably is not his teeth I can here the nice from I think it's just the sound of metal, he has a 3 ring gag but and its set on the big ring, when I bought him the people I got him from rode him in this and said he can be strong when ridden, I did change the bit over at one point to a egg burt snaffle, I was advised to do this by my natural horsemanship trainer... It seemed to work for him but I found he would not stop when asked as quick as normal...., I am confused??? I am a learner so take advice of others, I just want him to be a s comfortable as possible when ridden...thanks again

 

[Skib]

Your natural horsemanship RI told you not to use a strong bit to stop your horse because in classical riding and natural horsemanship (which have much in common), we dont stop the horse using the reins. Using the reins to stop a horse means using force - the pressure will life the horse's head, and give it something to push against, making it actually easier for the horse to bring its hind legs well under its body and hurry onwards. Using strength against strength with a horse is never a good idea as horses are stronger than we humans are.
When a horse is moving, its body is swinging from side to side - so you can stop a horse by closing your legs down and round its body to reduce its freedom to swing sideways. When a horse is moving its hind legs, your hips and seat bones in the saddle need to move with the side to side movement of the horse. So you can reduce the movement by weighing your seat bones and stiffening up. As you sit tall and close your fingers on the rein, the rein will signal the horse to slow - but without your actually pulling on it or shortening it.
You say your horse doesnt stop as quick as normal - the fact is that a horse going fast needs time to slow down before it actually stops. Just as people do. We cant sprint one moment and come to a sudden stand still. So you need to signal to the horse that you are going to want it to stop by slowing down and then asking. Ride hundreds of transitions from walk to halt walk to halt and you will find you need less and less to stop the horse. But it all takes practise for both horse and rider.
Your NH trainer would probably explain all this to you - because chaning the bit means changing the way you ride as well.

 

[newforest]

Reading the horse and hound site it mentions that a hanging cheek would give you more breaks over an eggbutt, due to the central tongue pressure.
But I am not suggesting you change, I might discuss with your riding instructor.

I tweak mine between a French link egg butt and just the eggbutt. I can feel the difference and her response is slower but you get one.

 

[Jessey]

Head shaking is considered a vice and can be very serious in some instances because the horse is driven nuts by whatever the cause is and can get so bad as to cause harm to themselves or their rider as they focus solely on that. The odd toss of the head is pretty normal so just be careful not to label the horse a head shaker too soon

Harry flicks his nose up and forwards, it normally starts after we've been out for about half an hour but isn't constant, though can be every 4-10 strides so plenty annoying I dont know why he does it, certainly an ear bonnet helps to reduce it and if I give his nose a rough rub it stops briefly (not sure if that is because I've wiped the drips out of his nose, got a bug or just distracted him briefly) I would like to try a nose net but it looks like he'll be moving on soon so doubt I will get to the bottom of it. Harry is an ex riding school pony and his owner put it down to him snatching at the reins and/or learning how to unnerve kids, it worked on her daughter! I also think he just gets a bit bored.

Bo also used to do what we called L'Oréal that arab head snake/toss thing, he would do it when impatient or over excited, definitely not a medical problem, just an attitude one

Things like tight brow bands can also cause head tossing, its def worth giving all of your tack a once over to double check and as suggested earlier try riding in different places/times of day/durations/weather conditions to see if you can find a trigger

 

[newforest]

Bo also used to do what we called L'Oréal that arab head snake/toss thing, he would do it when impatient or over excited, definitely not a medical problem, just an attitude one

Yes that's us.
She will do it down the same road.
Waiting for a few too many cars to pass, something that makes her spook and it's the objects fault. How dare it make her jump.
Horses in the herd getting her to move, classic example!