Hanging Cheek Snaffles

they have a bit more poll action due to the way they connect to the cheek pieces and reins, so they have a little more "leverage". thats basically the differentce :)
 
They act like a snaffle just having the sides on can help with direction control. They also hang in the mouth rather than rest on the bars - supposedly makes it more still in the mouth.

They dont actually create poll pressure because to do this the bars would have to hang below the mouthpiece (as in gag type bits). As the reins is taken up it slides around the bit rings and the top where the cheekpieces attach to the bit tend to move backward and forward a bit but don't create downward poll pressure. A ver common misconception but very easy to see when watched in use.

It is the baucher which is a very similar bit which will create some poll pressure but it is the hanging cheek you will see nearly 100% of the time. There is an attempt at differentiatng betweeen te two on this page

http://www.mindspring.com/~janl2/reference.html
 
i'm not sure that people are on the same wave length here.

a but that has piece that reach up or down the face or both is called a fulmer (or full cheek) this bit is used for directional help and has no poll pressure. a bit that has an arm from the main ring upwards to attach to the cheek piece is a baucher (or hanging cheek as alot of people call it) this bit does give poll pressure. anyone who thinks it doesn't should try the following; put a finger under the headpiece and have a rider enage the rein. for anyone who thinks a bit has no action on the bars; put your fingers under the bit on the bars and again let the rider engage that reins.

i have to do that for every bit i fit so i know that this happens. the indipendent side action of the comfort mouth baucher can give even more pressure than a plain mouth piece.
 
I am talking of baucher or hanging cheek which I still insist does not apply poll pressure. I have in been closely watching one in use today and yes even put my finger under the headpiece and I still stand by it creating no poll pressure. The eye where the cheek pieces attach move backware and forward slightly but at no time downward which it would need to do to create poll pressure. My sons horse abides any bit which creates poll pressure and yet works well in this bit.
 
Yep you will find most saddlery shops and many other sources of information will disagree but I think they all just follow each other.

I still from experience and use of this bit find it does not create p[oll pressure and go with the sustainable dressage page I posted.

I have seen this bit being used on a strong pony in the belief the creation of poll pressure would help all that happened is that as the reins were pulled the cheekpieces actually went slack thus totally unable to apply poll pressure.

Please have a look at this bit in actual use and mak up your own mind.
 
MrDCBags

sorry my last reply to you was rather rushed as my dinner was ready:).

The link you post shows the hanging cheek both 'at rest' and 'in use'.

If you look at the two picture you will see that the top eye, where the cheekpices has attached has certainly moved but has only moved forward not downward at all, this amount of movement is not going to create poll pressure. One thing this picture does not show is how the cheekpiece would move around the eye slightly thus minimising the effect of movement of the bit even further.

If you watch the bit in action the cheeks do certainly move backward and forward slightly but this does not create downward pressure neccesary for poll pressure.

If the reins are taken up even stronger the bit is puled up high into the corners and the cheekpieces will even be seen to go loose. Any chance of poll pressure completely removed.

I know a great many peole are going to disagree with me on this one which is fine, this is just my opinion through experience and use of this bit.
 
The neue schule image is inaccurate. When the bit tilts, the cheekpieces slide along the ring since it is not an elongated oval shape (which encourages the cheekpieces to stay in the same place on the ring and then causes poll pressure). When the cheek pieces slide, they are not pulled down and no poll pressure is given.

GG is right when sometimes they even go slack.
 
actually the full cheek and the fulmer are the same thing. i think you will find this is stated in any bit book and i even had a look on the link you posted and it's the same there too:).

as for poll pressure, i'm sure if you speak to heather from neue schule she will set you straight about her bits and exactly what they do. as she designed the bits to do certain things i think she is the best expert to ask about it. if the bit is used correctly it does have a poll action, and i should know i've tested it many times as it's one of my best selling bits.

i must also point out that my stallion reacts to one exactly the same way as a hackamore
 
sorry i had to post that quickly before the comp chucked me off.

anyway as was saying. my stallion reacts in exactly the same way with this bit as a hackamore, why? well coz he hates poll pressure! there is no other reason than that i'm affraid.

there are many of us who all say the same, i'm sure so many of us who have studied for our trade can't all be wrong?
 
suneanarab said:
actually the full cheek and the fulmer are the same thing. i think you will find this is stated in any bit book and i even had a look on the link you posted and it's the same there too:).

as for poll pressure, i'm sure if you speak to heather from neue schule she will set you straight about her bits and exactly what they do. as she designed the bits to do certain things i think she is the best expert to ask about it. if the bit is used correctly it does have a poll action, and i should know i've tested it many times as it's one of my best selling bits.

i must also point out that my stallion reacts to one exactly the same way as a hackamore
Click to expand...
A full cheek has eggbutt rings fixed to the cheek pieces. A true fulmer has the reins attached to loose rings which are attached to the cheks by short links.
 
sorry but that really makes little difference to the name, for many years they have been called the same thing rather like the baucher being a hanging cheek. when people ask for them it's like asking for a french link snaffle with either an eggbutt or loosering. they are the same thing with a different ring. trying to split hairs about the name just confuses people. when i'm asked for them by what ever name i always ask what ring they want just as i would any other bit.
 
Regardless of the poll pressure debate, my pony went very nicely in the hanging cheek snaffle. Instead of resting on the bars, it acts on the lips, or some technical explanation that I've forgotten. Something about when pressure is applied, the bit lifts off the bars?

She is really sensitive to pressure, and stuck her nose in the air in pretty much everything. I had no brakes, more because she just ran away from everything from hackamores/bitless bridles, to pelhams/kimblewicks etc. The hanging cheek helped her to soften in front, and she went from getting 2's in dressage ("No walk shown, pony appears to be cantering sideways") to getting 6/7/8!
 
claire. the purpose is to stop the bit crushing the tongue against the bars of the mouth. it does still act on the bars to an extent, just differently to other snaffles. it's often the case with single links and plates that they break in the wrong place and this squashs the poor tongue and make the horse put the head up to get the tongue free. you will also find that horses will snatch the rein to do the same thing. they also can't swallow if the tongue is pinned which some bits do.
 
Actually, yes I am saying many of those to whom horses are a trade are wrong. Doing it for a living doesn't make you less or more likely to get things wrong.

In this case, the bit is very commonly misunderstood as is noted by several OTHER professionals to whom selling gear and/or using it is their trade as well.
 
suneanarab said:
claire. the purpose is to stop the bit crushing the tongue against the bars of the mouth. it does still act on the bars to an extent, just differently to other snaffles. it's often the case with single links and plates that they break in the wrong place and this squashs the poor tongue and make the horse put the head up to get the tongue free. you will also find that horses will snatch the rein to do the same thing. they also can't swallow if the tongue is pinned which some bits do.
Click to expand...

I knew it was something to do with the bars, but I've had the bit for nearly 2 years, so all my research was back then!

She does have a relatively big tongue (I think? I've never really compared it) but it seems relatively fleshy. She also is just an odd shape, very long bag with little tiny legs, and a long neck...

100_2203.jpg


The hanging cheek was a huge step forward in our schooling, I don't know how else we would've gotten to where we are.
 
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