Grooming issues. Big ones!!

Sparklie

Sparklie

Active Member
Jun 3, 2005
3,188
0
36
hartlepool
:(

I'm having real issues with Buzz when grooming him. Background info for those that don't know: just turned 4 year old, 15hh cob who I've owned since December. He was bought from a tiny yard where he was born and brought up by his previous owner. He's now on a large, busy yard with me and it's taken him a good while to settle in as expected. Previous owner had no issues with him.

I can groom his neck and shoulder and I can pick all his feet out easily. Issues started months ago when he tried to kick me when undoing his leg straps on his rug. He got a smack at the time and he tried to kick a few more times after that when I was handling and each time he got a smack or told sternly no.

I pretty much gave up on grooming. I'd brush as much as I could and ignored his stomping about but I haven't made any progress really :eek:

Anyway he's moulting now and needs a good brush. My friend offered to brush him as she knows my problems. She reckons he's doing it as he knows I'm nervous of him kicking me and is pushing my buttons. So she walked into the stable with a brush and started brushing his bum. He swished his tail and stomped his feet and had a bit of a go at kicking but she ignored him and kept going. I was fairly amazed. She then made me do it.

Brushing over his back and legs was ok. We just ignored him as he was swishing and doing tiny kicks with no real intention of making contact. She moved onto his belly and he did a proper kick making very solid contact with the wall maybe a foot away from my friend. She smacked him, he did it again so he was smacked again. He turn turned his rear end and kicked again meaning that we had to move to avoid him. I shouted so he stopped but he had a right look on his face. My friend brushed again afterwards avoiding his belly to end on a good note.

She's offered to brush him every day for me which is very kind as I don't think I'm confident enough to do this desensitization. She reckons she's met worse and if he seriously wanted to do some damage he'd turn his backside and give both barrels!

Are we going about this the right way?
Does anyone have any tips?
I'm desperate and thinking of selling if I'm going to be constantly on edge around him.
 
i think it sounds like you are on the right tracks. I'm inclined not to shout (unless it's a near miss!) as it's rewarding his behaviour with your attention. Keep persevering and if your friend is willing to help then i'd let her :) on a safety note, have you anywhere outside you could groom? that way things are less enclosed and safer for you to dodge kicks.

we went through issues with kezzie and picking up feet, then with washing his legs with water :rolleyes: be firm, be consistant and don't let it get to you (i know, very hard!). Things will get better :)
 
Im not sure Im going to be the best person to post, but Ill give you my experiences.

Silver hates being groomed. And I mean HATES it. I dont know if its because shes been abused, or because it irritates her or if it sets her sweet itch off or just because shes not very cuddly.

I went down the desnsitising route with her - It made no difference to her.

She still swings her back legs and flashes her teeth at me, but Ive realised she doesnt want to hurt me - shes just telling me that she doesnt want me to groom in that place or some days groom at all.

Our solution:
I ignore her, if she has to be brushed she has to be brushed, dont move away and dont strop brushing, just ignore it. But we dont groom for the sakes of it either, our time together is just in each others comapny and we've bonded like that. Shes got better with it, but she still doesnt like it. I find her much better with plastic curry combs/metal shredders than brushes so perhaps try changing pressure or brushes
 
I personally prefer to take horses outside and tie up to groom and work with.

It may be that on the larger yard your horse needs to feel his stable is a safe place and would be better if you didn't use it for other things like grooming/tacking up etc.
 
Fod hates being groomed - I'm convinced because of his sweet itch. If I push it, he'll tell me nicely that he doesn't want to do it, then if I don't listen he'll shout at me. I can't really blame him, though it doesn't always make life easy!

I went back to baby steps with him, so starting off just touching him within his comfort zone. He loves having his bum scratched, so I stopped trying to go to his head, but always started by walking up to his bum to scratch him (like the bhs tell you you should never, ever do :eek:). I'd work forwards from there, get to where he was starting to get a bit tetchy, then work backwards again and just keep doing that for a couple of minutes, then walk away and leave him.

That developed into being able to touch him all over, but it had to be the right touches - for example, I can cuddle his head, but unless I'm doing that, he doesn't want his head rubbed. Winter has also helped a lot, as has (hopefully) at least delaying the sweet itch starting this year.

So my suggestion would be to do something similar. You don't need to groom - that can come later when he's more comfortable. Your first aim is that he'll tolerate you touching everywhere, so start with neck and shoulders as that's his comfort zone. Does he like under his mane or near his withers being scratched? If so, that becomes his reward. Start by doing that, then work back slowly until he starts to react, but you need to pick up the first signs of a reaction, like ears moving or weight shifting away from you. When he does that, start to work forward, going back to his reward scratch. Repeat a couple of times, then leave him. Do it daily and you should make progress as his comfort zone increases.
 
Yes I can tie him up on the yard.
We didn't today as being a weekend there were alot of kids about and I worry that he'll lash out when they're around.

I shouted because he'd swung round with intent and there wasn't a safe part to smack. It seemed like the only option to stop an accident :(

PF - I've read about you and Silver before when you've posted about it. He clearly isn't impressed but I know that he wasn't like this for his previous owner so I don't think it's
just that he hates the idea totally.

EML -my friend is of the impression that it's HIS stable so I should be able to do things with him in there. Do you think it would be best to always do everything outside of the stable until he stops this behaviour?

Things will get easier now that the horses are going to be out 24/7 (from may 1st, yay!) and I'll more time to focus on these issues.
 
When I first got Tia, she was fine for the first few weeks and then started having hissy fits when I picked out her feet and brushed her tummy - and even touching her. I started becoming nervous about the youngsters coming up and stroking her as she was turning round, putting her ears back and making a nippy mouth action (although she never did actually bite anyone, but she had a very good try!).

It's not as bad as with your boy I know, but, when someone very confident brushed her, picked her feet, she was totally different.

I started to ignore her, tied her up tightly when I picked her feet (so she couldnt turn around and nip me on the bum :D) and just got on with it. She didn't ever kick though, so I had it easier than you.

Now, she isn't grumpy at all and lifts her feet up for me. But it's taken me a good few months to get on the right side of her and I have had her since August.

I also don't like grooming in a stable, and as your boy kicks, I'd definitely tie him up outside.

No idea if that helps, but it sounds like you're doing the right thing, you just need to persevere with your friend's help if you can?
 
Zingy - cross posted with you. That's what I've been doing but I really haven't made much progress :( he doesn't seem to have a particular spot that he likes me to touch or scratch. I feel like I'm giving in when I move if he reacts.

I made an arm on a stick to desensitise him to touch without me getting hurt. I can touch everywhere with this with minimal reaction. He's not worried about being touched. He just hates it! And takes advantage of my nerves

My friend is making me look at the positives. He doesn't kick every time we touch him with a brush and he hasn't actually kicked yet. I guess she's right. It's just hard to see the good bits when he's being so naughty

thanx nicnac. I think I'd cope better with biting. Kicking is just scary and dangerous
 
Last edited:
Another thought in that case - have you tried clicker training with him? Is he food orientated? It might work as there will be a reward in it for him if he allows you to do what you want. So a similar idea, but doesn't need him to enjoy any part of you actually touching/ grooming him!
 
He's very none food orientated :(

He's never been given treats by hand so doesn't really bother with treats. I occasionally will give him an apple or carrot by hand as they're large and he understands. But a fellow livery has tried to feed him smaller things like mints and he doesn't understand.
 
He doesn't make life easy for you then does he? :eek: If he doesn't do scratches and doesn't do treats, is there anything he considers to be a reward that you could use as a positive in desensitising him? Things are much easier if there's a reward for good behaviour :confused:
 
Oooh, I just thought, a friend of mine told me about massaging under Tia's forelock just between her ears, really slowly, before I even started to groom her and also as a reward for her not putting her ears back etc. It relaxes horses apparently and it did make her a bit doe-eyed. Could you try there? My friend also suggested rubbing the poll at the same time, and it did really relax her, kind of like an Indian head massage.
 
With issues I've had in the past due to them being genuinely scared, I've found that having them on a longer line in a paddock so they are free to move is a good way to go.

I do advance and retreat with them in that way and that's how I manage to worm Littles who cant stand anyone near his mouth but has come such a long way since I've had him. I even walked along with him at the begining so he didn't feel trapped. No panic now, he just doesn't like it!
 
Last edited:
I really don't think this is a fear thing. This is quite simply a trying it on thing. I know all his history and he's never been mistreated or felt insecure in a
stable before. I'm going to try grooming on the yard to start with though as I can escape easier!!

A friend suggested (as he has had a fairly NH upbringing) maybe grooming with him stood in the indoor on a long line so that if he starts to get nasty I can send him away. Any thoughts?

He likes simply being told he's a good boy. He's quite voice orientated and he responds well to my voice. He knows a happy and an unhappy tone!!

Poor boy is allowed a bit of sympathy today as he's had the dentist out. Friend did as she promised today though and brushed him all over without too much fuss so we're
making baby steps
 
What about trying to groom him at liberty in a round pen? When he gets tired of grooming he can walk away and you can keep following him, keeping him moving. When he stops, groom again for a little while and stop before he gets bolshy and just stand quietly with him as a reward (releasing the pressure). Then start again. He should soon realise that it is easier to stand nicely and be groomed.

Not sure if it will work but maybe worth a try.
 
My mare has started being like this when grooming- swishing tail and stamping back feet, I think she is ticklish, esp round her hip area. She didnt do it before but I think its because shes moulting and the hairs that come out when I groom her are itching. Shes not an especially cuddly mare anyway so I just groom where I can, if she protests I try to brush gently and try using different brushes, she protests less at a shedding brush.
On a seperate note, if you or your friend arent already, wear a hat when brushing your horse for the time being, there have been a few well publicised cases recently of people being kicked in the head (in some cases fatally) when they have been grooming and/or in the stable.
 
my mare hates being groomed too. She got worse last summer when she wasnt happy with her girth/saddle combination.

I just decided to only groom the necessary areas if required prior to tacking up.

now i wouldnt say she enjoys being groomed, but she is happier with harder brushes like curry combs. She does tell me when shes not happy with ears back and head swinging...but luckily shes not a kicker.

Also try diff things, diff brushes, diff pressures...im not sure how you are acting when grooming him, but try to alter your energy (we progressed quicker when i was calm but assertive but groomed slowly and approached slowly), also totally agree with the approach/retreat method as it has definitely worked with my mare.

i can now groom and tack up with very minimal disagreement from her...i just get on and do it and 'ignore' any little behaviours she gives...unless its biting me (which hasnt happened for months and months now)
 
It took me a year, alot of patience, a few tears (mine not hers) before she accepted being groomed, other than her neck and shoulder. Before I bought her she was a broodmare, had been in the same squalid small muddy field for over 3 years and was not happy about any of the 'luxuries' I had to offer. I was so embarrassed as the other owners would groom there horses so they shone all over and my mare had the same mud knots on her belly until they fell off! She just wasnt having any of it. What I did was groom the areas that she would accept and with each session extend the movement a tiny, tiny bit at a time. Positive energy is essential with her, decide on task/goal (however small) and just do it (if I dilly dally she takes advantage)
When grooming my two I have to use quite alot of pressure!! They both love rubber curry combs but hate soft brushes. My mare, in particular, gets stroppy and fidgety if she is groomed 'gently'. Makes my arm ache!!:)
 
Last edited:
newrider.com
Top Bottom
Back