Good news, bad news... Charlie helps

Yesterday Mattie was pretty good in his pen and I took a bit of video to show you:


To give you some context, the white hind leg is the one that was injured at the end of August and it has always been his weaker leg. The fetlock is still very swollen but the vet told me that I shouldn't worry and that it might stay swollen forever now as a result of the injury. The brown hind leg is the one that currently has the problem and has until now has been his stronger leg.

What do you think of his movement?

Poor bugger, just after this I thought he was looking pretty good would enjoy a roll so put him into the flat grassy school. He rolled, rolled right over in his enthusiasm, and then couldn't get up. He was in a position where he needed to boost himself up with the brown leg, and he couldn't. He lay on the ground for 15 minutes, getting colder and colder, while I called my husband for help. I went to get him a rug to keep him warm - he was shivering - and while I was gone he forced himself up, but in doing so he hurt the brown leg again and came in hopping lame.

This morning he is better again but very, very stiff. Poor old man, no more rolling for him. I am kicking myself. I feel quite sure that this is a muscle-skeletal rather than a hoof issue, but in this cold cold weather it's going to take a long time to come right.
 
Jane&Ziggy said:
Yesterday Mattie was pretty good in his pen and I took a bit of video to show you:


To give you some context, the white hind leg is the one that was injured at the end of August and it has always been his weaker leg. The fetlock is still very swollen but the vet told me that I shouldn't worry and that it might stay swollen forever now as a result of the injury. The brown hind leg is the one that currently has the problem and has until now has been his stronger leg.

What do you think of his movement?

Poor bugger, just after this I thought he was looking pretty good would enjoy a roll so put him into the flat grassy school. He rolled, rolled right over in his enthusiasm, and then couldn't get up. He was in a position where he needed to boost himself up with the brown leg, and he couldn't. He lay on the ground for 15 minutes, getting colder and colder, while I called my husband for help. I went to get him a rug to keep him warm - he was shivering - and while I was gone he forced himself up, but in doing so he hurt the brown leg again and came in hopping lame.

This morning he is better again but very, very stiff. Poor old man, no more rolling for him. I am kicking myself. I feel quite sure that this is a muscle-skeletal rather than a hoof issue, but in this cold cold weather it's going to take a long time to come right.
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poor boy, it's hell when they can't get up. I have had my share of lifting donkeys to their feet and it's hard work. I hope he improves, it's hard to watch them struggle.
 
To me that looks like it's higher up, and he doesn't seem like he's being careful about putting his foot down which I would expect if it was hoof related. Have you sent this clip to your vet? If not it might be worthwhile. Also what's he like to back up and turn? Lots of vibes for him.
 
Yeah there’s an odd flight to the limb that doesn’t necessarily look like owie foot.

Are you still poulticing just in case? Jess had one once that tracked up her leg after the initial bursting, and came out half way up her cannon! So I tend to just keep poulticing until proven otherwise.
 
Jessey said:
Yeah there’s an odd flight to the limb that doesn’t necessarily look like owie foot.

Are you still poulticing just in case? Jess had one once that tracked up her leg after the initial bursting, and came out half way up her cannon! So I tend to just keep poulticing until proven otherwise.
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I quite agree @Jessey, I think it's much higher up, towards the hip or groin. He has always had his problems further up and in his lower back so this doesn't surprise me.

I'm not poulticing because the poor bugger just can't hold the foot up for me long enough to do it. I'm glad it doesn't seem to be the hoof because I feel less like a bad owner.
 
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Has the vet done any flexion tests on him. He looks tight to me. I would think he would be significantly more lame with flexion.
 
@chunky monkey She didn't, because when she came he was so sore I could barely walk him up for her.

At the time she thought abscess was most likely, but I now think it is not an abscess but something musculo-skeletal. I don't think there's any treatment other than rest, anti inflammatories and pain relief, so I would rather not call the vet back out if possible as it is so expensive (last visit was £160). I can rest him and give him white willow and/or bute for a while and see what happens.
 
Well, yesterday and the day before my OH and I had to pick Mattie up: he had lain down to roll, rolled right over, and couldn't get up again.

We managed it OK by unfastening his rug, the Steve stood at his belly and lifted the rug, and I stood at his back and pulled like f*ck on the straps. When he rolled over he was quite sweet, he tucked his legs in just like a puppy or kitten being scruffed! But once he was over he leapt up, and I had to get out of the way pretty damn quick.

That wasn't a lot of fun, so I decided to keep him in more so it wouldn't happen again. But no, after 2 weeks of stabling he has had enough. Here are Mattie's 10 steps to freedom:

1. Whinny occasionally during the night - he knows I can hear him and I won't sleep worrying about him.
2.Turn stable into a war zone overnight.
3. When he sees me in the morning, scream his head off.
4. As I approach, bob head frantically, pace with front feet. Scrape floor. Strike gate.
5. I put him out in the little grass school. He limps to fence line and then starts to do full on Arab trot - high elevation, tail in the air - all along the fence line, to and fro, to and fro, staring at the long grass.
6. Stop to eat breakfast.
7. Gallop 3 strides across to fence line to start again.
8. When I go to put him in his pen on the long grass, be a perfect gentleman as long as the head collar is on, then the moment he is loose in the pen, start the trotting up and down again, bobbing his head the while.
9. Make it clear that when he's not trotting he is really, really sore because of all the trotting.
10. When I give up and let him out on the long grass with Charlie, settle immediately, come over to me (slowly) to nudge me with his nose to say thank you.

I'm going to leave him out from now on.
 
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Jane&Ziggy said:
Well, yesterday and the day before my OH and I had to pick Mattie up: he had lain down to roll, rolled right over, and couldn't get up again.

We managed it OK by unfastening his rug, the Steve stood at his belly and lifted the rug, and I stood at his back and pulled like f*ck on the straps. When he rolled over he was quite sweet, he tucked his legs in just like a puppy or kitten being scruffed! But once he was over he leapt up, and I had to get out of the way pretty damn quick.

That wasn't a lot of fun, so I decided to keep him in more so it wouldn't happen again. But no, after 2 weeks of stabling he has had enough. Here are Mattie's 10 steps to freedom:

1. Whinny occasionally during the night - he knows I can hear him and I won't sleep worrying about him.
2.Turn stable into a war zone overnight.
3. When he sees me in the morning, scream his head off.
4. As I approach, bob head frantically, pace with front feet. Scrape floor. Strike gate.
5. I put him out in the little grass school. He limps to fence line and then starts to do full on Arab trot - high elevation, tail in the air - all along the fence line, to and fro, to and fro, staring at the long grass.
6. Stop to eat breakfast.
7. Gallop 3 strides across to fence line to start again.
8. When I go to put him in his pen on the long grass, be a perfect gentleman as long as the head collar is on, then the moment he is loose in the pen, start the trotting up and down again, bobbing his head the while.
9. Make it clear that when he's not trotting he is really, really sore because of all the trotting.
10. When I give up and let him out on the long grass with Charlie, settle immediately, come over to me (slowly) to nudge me with his nose to say thank you.

I'm going to leave him out from now on.
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Omg - they take such pleasure in scaring us spitless.
 
It’s so hard helping them sometimes x
You can use a rope (lunge line/long lead rope) around the pastern (on the two bottom legs) to roll them over, the length of the leg gives good leverage and I can roll a big horse on my own. Don’t tie the rope on, just wrap it around the pastern so it falls off as soon as you release it/they stand up. Make sure the rope is thick and soft so it won’t dig in. Alternatively it might be worth investing in an anti cast roller so he can’t get all the way over.
 
chunky monkey said:
Has the vet done any flexion tests on him. He looks tight to me. I would think he would be significantly more lame with flexion.
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Jessey said:
It’s so hard helping them sometimes x
You can use a rope (lunge line/long lead rope) around the pastern (on the two bottom legs) to roll them over, the length of the leg gives good leverage and I can roll a big horse on my own. Don’t tie the rope on, just wrap it around the pastern so it falls off as soon as you release it/they stand up. Make sure the rope is thick and soft so it won’t dig in. Alternatively it might be worth investing in an anti cast roller so he can’t get all the way over.
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@Jessey is there anything horsey you don't know???

THANK YOU for the advice on the ropes. I have two thick soft NH ropes which will be perfect and I am sure he would be a gentleman to have the put on. Of course, the underneath legs.

And I will go and look up "anti cast roller" right now!
 
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it's always something isn't it. Aimee donkey sometimes goes down and you are not sure if she is just having a rest - she lies on the concrete on the yard - or she has collapsed....then ten minutes later she gets up and starts eating again
 
Not sure if this is relevant and student grand daughter currently has my book on physiology of horses.
But I seem to remember horses sleep standing but every 24 hours need a coupe of hours sleep lying down, during which another member of the herd will stand nearby keeping watch.
 
I used to have an anti cast roller for J. Inherited from previous owner. It was to stop him rolling in his box. But I didn't use it as he was only wanting to roll because he was sweaty and needed turnout. So it wasn't because he needed to not get stuck after lying down if you will. I hope you can find a solution for Mattie, the ropes sound like a good idea but I'm struggling to imagine it. @Jessey in the spirit of me being a bit slow on - could you draw a diagram or explain a bit more? (I am asking for a genuine reason as we've had some issues with Chloe lately and it would be nice to know we could help her if need be). Sorry to thread hi jack too?
 
I'll try and explain the roll over in more detail; so you have a horse that is cast (rolled too close to a wall/legs against the wall and can't get enough of a roll to get it's legs back over or under itself to get up, or as in matties case has an injury on one side so hasn't got the strength to stand up with that leg bearing most of his weight. This isn't a method for lifting a downed horse, just one for rolling them over to be able to get themselves up.

Very carefully and never getting between his legs or in the kick zone you loop the middle of a rope (1 and a half turns but just looped under will work if they are calm) around the pastern closest to the floor and drape it over his body so it goes over his back, then do the same with the other foot closest to the floor (although if that's the injured leg I'd be wary depending on the type of injury). Then you stand behind his back, 3-4 ft away and more towards the wither than his bum, and gently take up the tension on both ropes, wear gloves and if he panics you just let go, but generally they will just let you and use the rope to push against to get themselves over. You'll be able to judge which rope to take the weight on by feeling and watching, you don't want to force the leg to bend in any odd direction, but they tend to roll amazingly easily once you get them going (if they don't, you can dig the bedding/ground out from behind them so they can roll back/down). As they come over, when the feet are just past 12 you want to drop those ropes and get out!, do not wait until you have them all the way over and never try to take your ropes with you. They are going to feel they are free and they will do the rest to get themselves over and up and you do not want to be in the way of those legs flailing around, and they could have a bit of pins and needles in their legs from being down so may not be entirely steady to start with, the safest thing for everyone is as soon as they get legs past 12 you drop and get out and shut the stable door/get a good 30m away in the field, just in case. As you only looped the rope around the pastern they will just drop off as they get up.

This is an exceptionally dangerous manoeuvre for the person, don't take any risks with it, if the horse is thrashing don't try it, and it needs a good risk assessment before trying, check your exit routes are clear, know the animal in question and if it feels at all sketchy realise it's a 100 times worse already. Even the calmest, sweetest horse/pony can panic and start wildly thrashing at any moment and you will get hurt if you are in range.

And because I’m super bored, a little demonstration ?
 
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Nice one @Jessey ! Though I think that may have a few problems that being rolled over aren't going to fix . . .

(8) Facebook I'm not sure if this link works, but if it doesn't on fb is a page called Friends of the Hampshire Animal Rescue Team and they have a video dated 26/12/19 showing a cast horse being helped up by rolling it over. An important safety note is if a horse has been down for any time it may be very wobbly when it gets up so make sure you're a safe distance away.
 
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carthorse said:
Nice one @Jessey ! Though I think that may have a few problems that being rolled over aren't going to fix . . .

(8) Facebook I'm not sure if this link works, but if it doesn't on fb is a page called Friends of the Hampshire Animal Rescue Team and they have a video dated 26/12/19 showing a cast horse being helped up by rolling it over. An important safety note is if a horse has been down for any time it may be very wobbly when it gets up so make sure you're a safe distance away.
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Yep that link works ?
 
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