Genuine advice redquired (especially from those with Shire X's , young&strong horses

appaloosamare

New Member
Jul 20, 2008
1,015
0
0
I have put this in cafe as it crosses into several of the other categories....

But... as you may know my young Shire X has gone off to the breaking yard.

He is proving to be extremely strong and they wanted me to find out from the forums I go on etc what other Shire X riders use for bitting ??

Also he is just completely tanking off when asked a question - he has never tanked off with me - but I have asked very slow questions developed over a long period of time.......

He has only been on the yard since Saturday and it's very early days but other peoples experience greatly appreciated....

and before you jump in asking about how qualified are they to do the job if they are asking for advice....but they usually work with thoroughbreds as are from racing background and not used to such a strong pitted horse! And I know the principles are the same - but again just wanting to know what others use on their shires!

Thanks.
 
Blue shirex, can be very strong.
Myler comfort snaffle, cant rave about this bit enough.
He was so strong, I tried pelham ( good but not for breaking ) dutch gag ( hate them , so did he ) happy mouth snaffle ( tanked )
Then discovered myler comfort.
Blue really likes this bit, and very good control.
hope this helps a bit
 
Perhaps they are asking to much of him to fast, if he's just been there since saterday, then he is still in the OMG where is the boss lady !! phase & wont be to chuffed about other people handling him & you not being there. Im surprised they did not allow him time to settle in & become acquainted.


Ive ridden 2 shire crosses & a full shire, full shire was also a driving shire but was bitted when riding with a loose ring french link, the crosses, 1 was a pelham but the curb was so loose it had little effect (wasnt needed) and the other, i cant remember really, but he wasnt strong either & had a lovely soft mouth.

Perhaps if they gave him some days to adjust & then picked up his education using the same methods as you have been using might help him not to be so confused and panicky.
 
I own a purebred ID that I've had since a 2yo so I'm used to big strong horses. If you want to see what I mean then have a look on a couple of the old picture threads I've posted of him - brick ****house springs to mind!

Is there anyone who's used to these sort of horses that could break him for you? They're very different to TBs & it would be easier for everyone if he was broken by people more familiar with this type. Failing that they need to be fair but very firm, out-think him rather than use strength (sounds obvious but you'd be amazed how many people try to manhandle big horses then look surprised when it doesn't work), never let him get in a position where he can use his size against them & make sure each stage is very very secure before moving onto the next one.

Bit wise I don't think they're any different from any other horse & certainly the initial work should be in a snaffle. Theres no need for them to be strong to ride, it's actually quite amazing how light & responsive a lot of these big lads & lasses can be. I use either a mullen mouth snaffle or a pelham with two reins on Jim - the pelham is for subtlty, I'd have him in a double if he had room in his mouth. ETA both my bits are Mylers, like blues mum I find he likes the thinner mouthpiece.
 
Blue shirex, can be very strong.
Myler comfort snaffle, cant rave about this bit enough.
He was so strong, I tried pelham ( good but not for breaking ) dutch gag ( hate them , so did he ) happy mouth snaffle ( tanked )
Then discovered myler comfort.
Blue really likes this bit, and very good control.
hope this helps a bit

hey thanks for that - its funny when they phoned me last night to discuss that's what I thought- myler myler myler.... haven't had one - off to research!!!
 
I own a purebred ID that I've had since a 2yo so I'm used to big strong horses. If you want to see what I mean then have a look on a couple of the old picture threads I've posted of him - brick ****house springs to mind!

Is there anyone who's used to these sort of horses that could break him for you? They're very different to TBs & it would be easier for everyone if he was broken by people more familiar with this type. Failing that they need to be fair but very firm, out-think him rather than use strength (sounds obvious but you'd be amazed how many people try to manhandle big horses then look surprised when it doesn't work), never let him get in a position where he can use his size against them & make sure each stage is very very secure before moving onto the next one.

Bit wise I don't think they're any different from any other horse & certainly the initial work should be in a snaffle. Theres no need for them to be strong to ride, it's actually quite amazing how light & responsive a lot of these big lads & lasses can be. I use either a mullen mouth snaffle or a pelham with two reins on Jim - the pelham is for subtlty, I'd have him in a double if he had room in his mouth. ETA both my bits are Mylers, like blues mum I find he likes the thinner mouthpiece.

thanks - i have no doubts about their capabilities to work with him - they have broken my other half's Aunts clydesdale x so not completely unfamiliar...

they are exactly as you described - firm but fair :)
 
Perhaps they are asking to much of him to fast, if he's just been there since saterday, then he is still in the OMG where is the boss lady !! phase & wont be to chuffed about other people handling him & you not being there. Im surprised they did not allow him time to settle in & become acquainted.


Ive ridden 2 shire crosses & a full shire, full shire was also a driving shire but was bitted when riding with a loose ring french link, the crosses, 1 was a pelham but the curb was so loose it had little effect (wasnt needed) and the other, i cant remember really, but he wasnt strong either & had a lovely soft mouth.

Perhaps if they gave him some days to adjust & then picked up his education using the same methods as you have been using might help him not to be so confused and panicky.

Not concerned they are going too fast - they did groundwork lunging and longreining him previously with amazing results .....they are well known and respected in the area for taking their time and doing the job well....
 
Shire x cob

I too have the same problem.. My shire x is forever tanking off, tried a loose ring, hanging cheek, show pelham, and finally hackamore.. thought it was just me... he's a lovely horse, 100% in every OTHER way, great with kids, farrier, bathing, clipping (most of the time), but when he gets it on him i.e. "I'm NOT in the mood!", it all goes array and he sets off on a power walk that the more you pull him, the more he pulls back!! He is currently in a hackamore which is having mixed results, as on a good day he's a really good ride, behaves and stops with the slightest twitch of his reins, though he hates having a horse behind him and dislikes being behind another horse, so its difficult to ride in company.
If I keep him behind another horse, eventually, usually after 20 mins, he starts to relax, and I can give him near a full rein! I'm trying to teach him that the more relaxed he is, the more I allow his head. He's only been in this hackamore for 3 weeks, and I do see some improvement, but my sharer says he's really strong when she takes him on the fields and gallops him, and jumping.. I think it must be the way she rides, and the hackamore doesn't suit that sort of riding.
 
hey thanks for the more info... yeah when i say tanks off - even in walk he tanks but not BOLTS just goes right through any commands and pushes his own way through....

We reckon a whole year of just hacking will be good for him ....let him enjoy the sights and sounds and subtly ask him the questions.....but it's early days...

thanks folks.
 
i have a strong cob, not sure on breeding but she looks a bit shirey , she is in a waterford hanging cheek as she liked the shape and its also quite a strong bit. A few people don't like them (actually, a lot hate them) but i love them!! Ginny seemed so much happier:)

good luck, hope all goes well:)
 
I have a shire x warmblood and I also know what you mean. I have been riding him in a french link snaffle but he has started going through it, some days very responsive other days he ignores it completely. Cant school him so far as he has taken a liking to spinning so quickly he decants you out the side door. Everything checked and double checked its just if he doesn't want to do something or feels threatened he does it.
Saying all that he is my dream horse and my big lad so we will try to work through it. I have noted about the myler please let us know how you get on with it, I may give it a try.

Liz
 
Lucy is cob x shire.

She got too strong & nappy in her snaffle so went into a myler comfort snaffle.
And now her Kevins are over and her schooling is going really well, she's in a cupronickel loose ring snaffle & going absolutely great.
 
Breeding shouldn't come into it really, I would always start in a snaffle. Seems to me that they need to go back to long lining and get the respect on the ground first. If the process is rushed now there could be no end of problems later on. You do not say how old the horse is, perhaps he is not quite ready to move on to ridden work.
 
shire x are known to be quite thrawn right enough though - it does come into breeding a bit??? .....look at all the stereotypes of the breeds....
 
My first two coloured horses (full brothers) were part Shire horse.

I found them to be really easy to handle. They were easy to do around the place, and took to long reining on the roads/pulling tyres and strainer posts/pulling harrows, and being backed, like ducks to water.

I lost the younger as a 4yr old to grass sickness, but the other became an honest and safe driving horse who worked with novice and vulnerable people. I sold him to a college at 11 years old.

I think there are many misconceptions regarding the heavy horse crosses. The Shires and Clydesdales were bred for many generations to produce horses with strength for the work they had to perform, but to be gentle and easily managed/trained too. They are cold-blooded.

In the days when they were worked on the farms, they were put to all kinds of vehicles and contraptions and, whilst some individuals were better suited to certain tasks, as breeds they gave very little trouble to the men who understood their characters and how to manage them.

Crossing them with warmbloods has sparked the progeny up somewhat, but they are still part cold blood and, if handled sensibly and firmly, and not allowed to have their own way, they should be just as tractable, safe, and reliable as any other.

I've usually started these types (and heavy cobs) in a mullen mouth bit, having first taught them to behave in-hand, and on the long reins, using a few simple commands/kind hands, and teaching them that they must not use their strength against me. Started like that, they soon develop a good attitude, and a canny way of going............there's plenty of time to gee them up later on when they have matured.

Sometimes I use a full cheek jointed snaffle with play keys to give them a change from the mullen. Once they are going well I introduce Liverpool bit (for driving), and I can honestly say I've not had any problems so far.

Like most breeds, or crosses, there are things to consider regarding breed characteristics/abilities/suitability to the work and, maybe most important, their conformation and bulk, especially when asking them to work............they do need enough time to understand what's being asked of them and perform the movement. This is often why they are considered slow learners and stubborn, as some handlers fail to allow for their size in relation to their ability to move around.

BTW......many of them are too immature to start as 3yr olds, and respond better to serious training as 4 or 5yr olds, and even then some may need a bit of time.

:)
 
Hi,
I just wanted to say i have a heavy weight cob who is one big mama and sometimes know how to use this against you until we found the myler comfort snaffle and she is completly different horse she loves it! I really cant speak highly enough of this bit! :)
 
i have a strong cob, not sure on breeding but she looks a bit shirey , she is in a waterford hanging cheek as she liked the shape and its also quite a strong bit. A few people don't like them (actually, a lot hate them) but i love them!! Ginny seemed so much happier:)

good luck, hope all goes well:)

I have the same type of horse in the same bit....it works brilliantly for my mare though agree loads of people hate them and in the wrong hands a nightmare. I am just bitting my youngster in a snaffle and everyone has been raving about myler bits to me since I started working with my gelding. I too will be very inclined to look to use this kind of bit when he starts his ridden work though at the mo he is going superbly in a normal jointed snaffle. Good luck with your lad he sounds gorgeous.
 
newrider.com