Fhoenix Fa!!!

I can well understand why she's done it, but I'd personally not rush into getting one when the concept is so untried. I'm not sure how you're going to avoid pressure point problems under the front end of the half tree even if it is at the back rather than the front of the saddle. It's also something that's been brought to market very quickly, which can be problematic.

I do hope it works as what has happened to her with Ansur is absolutely scandalous.
 
Im glad she's got around the lawsuit with it. And on the EE board she says the cantle is hard but the bit tree bit is actually flexible -or something similar
 
So is this the Flexion SBS replacement? I'm not sure I like the idea. I've yet to be convinced by traditional half tree saddles (hackedoff, I am going to come visit you!) and this one doesn't appeal (sorry Heather). The half tree in a standard half tree saddle supports the stirrups...so how are the stirrups supported on this one, and won't the half tree ending under the rider's seat cause major pressure problems?
 
here is some info from heathers site

The tree doesnt come as far as the front of the rider's seat.It forms a horseshoe shape under the main buttock area. The front arch is still as soft as before, but the design now permits internal padding to be added in order to adjust fit easily for high withered or atrophied horses, makingit much neater and even more stab
 
A nice detailed desciption by Heather from her forum

Hi All,

CLick on the photo on the homepage and it will give you details of the saddle. The half tree is not in the front as with other half trees, and it is not a standard wooden half tree, but a moulded plastic one, part rigid, as in the cantle, part flexible, which we have patented ourselves. The half tree forms the rigid cantle at the back of the saddle, so therefore does not detract from the fitting of the saddle at the front. One extremely well known Walsall saddlery company owner said to me earlier this week 'no one has thought of putting the half tree in the back of the saddle, before, only the front!' As he also said, this is giving the best of both worlds, treeless and treed. The flexible tree gives better support to the gullet, and the panels are now being moulded, giving a much better radius and shape for the horse's back.

Having the rigid cantle has allowed us to shorten the saddle panels by 1.5" , and the panels are also 1.5" narrower. This gives a better fit to narrower horses, and prevents any potential rubs on short backed horses- as you know we had a few problems with this, but due to the cantle foam having to be so thick to give the necessary support to the rider's seat, we had to make the panels longer. For most horses this wasnt a problem, but was one that we were having to adress. This solved it., but has also made the new saddle look far more conventional and much neater at the back.

We have also found that the saddle grips better than ever before on wide horses. Having the panels pocketted, means that extra padding can be placed internally, rather than having to have umpteen pads under the saddle itself for atrophied or under developed horses. Just some good old Fybagee, folded, just as we used to advise with treed saddles that we fitted wider to allow musclee development.

I have been developing this saddle for some months as it happens- we need to have a saddle that is as versatile as possible to suit every horse and rider's needs. Basically, whikst this lawsuit has cost me greatly in terms of money, and far greater in personal terms, it has forced us to make an all round better saddle

Sadly, due to the terms ol the'agreement' I have had to sign with Ansur, I will not be able to sell even a part treed saddle in the USA, even though the Ansur patent does not cover or include part treed saddles in any way. My lawyer and I will be issuing a statement very soon.


Heather
Click to expand...

I'm not decided on this, but then again I'm not needing to buy a saddle right now. I'll be interested to see how it sells though and what the feddback is like - and also where Heather goes from here. I've heard that she's very impressed with the Suber pads and would like to make a Fhoenix FA with the panels replaced by suber pads which would be interesting.

Is anyone thinking about testing/buying then?
 
Suber pads are amazing - I've got two. The horses love them and there is not a hair out of place after a ride, in fact they don't look like they've had anything on their backs at all. The cork soaks up all the sweat too, so their backs stay dry, in fact the pads are even softer and nicer when they're wet, I give mine a spray with the shower before I go up to ride!
 
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That's really interesting about the Suberpads Lexi. I have a Freeform treeless saddle and the suber pad is recommended for under those as well. I'm looking for a new numnah and a conventional one has a seam which means it won't go under a saddle without a gullet (Freeform doesn't have a gullet). I've just followed the link and I think I'll give them a ring today and find out more.
 
Lexi, do you use yours under a treed or treeless saddles?

The close contact one without the flaps is £65, I know because I've just ordered one;)
 
Hi

As usual I'll be offering trials of the saddle and accessories ;) , including the suberpad for those that will need it (generally high withered or atrophied horses).

Showjumper, the cantle arrangement is very similar to that used with the Flexion Supreme, but has been improved upon. Heather has gone into more detail on the EE forum, if that helps :).
 
£85 because I've just ordered one. :D Have to compare notes when they arrive Yann :)

I spoke to David Ahn who makes them and that was what he recommended to go under my Freeform saddle.
 
Yann, I use mine under the sbs. I've got two, the 'normal' thickness one, and the 10% thinner one. I use the thinner one on the mare, and the thicker one is for the gelding as he has had a bad back (not from the sbs I hasten to add, but from one of the panel designs). There isn't much difference between the two really. I can see that some people would be well put off by feeling higher up, but it's amazing how quickly you get used to it, and once you see your horse's reaction there's no going back!

Have you ordered the one with the flaps cazrider? I've got the same as Yann and they were £65. We're all mad in my house, we sit on each other to 'try out' pads and saddles these days (well, how else are you going to find out what they feel like, especially when you've had a bad experience with a saddle fitted to your poor horse and then it gets a bad back). My daughter and I liked the feel of the suber best, and much better than a bare saddle, I think sheepskin came second! If you've not got an obliging child to give a horsey ride to you can always lie down on the pads etc and feel them that way! Oh-oh, white van at the door folks, got to go!

Nix, go and read the saddlecloth post over on EE, you've been volunteered as a slipping expert!
 
Yes, it is the one with the flaps Lexi. I must try out your interesting "test method"... oops, no obliging children. I wonder how OH would feel.. :D
 
Well-I HAVE a Fhoenix GP --and there is absolutely NO 'pressure under the rider' from the hard cantle. It doesn't go anywhere near the horses back--but it does improve stablity and makes the whole 'riding experience' very pleasant easy comfortable and safe. Its almost impossible to sit 'wrong' in it--and the more stable cantle has permitted more 'twist' to the front of the seat--which suits ME just fine anyway.


Its a bit different to the SBS-but its hard to put into words exactly wherein the difference lies. I have ridden in both--one after the other--and the Fhoenix is definitely an improvement.
 
I got my Fhoenix GP and dressage demonstrators this weekend too. The dirt and sweatmarks under the saddle are exactly the same as with the SBS - even and showing absolutely no indication of pressure points. I also used my Port Lewis impression pad with the saddles and that confirmed this.

The saddle feels a little narrower than the SBS, as Heather has further shaped the panels and you are more able to feel the movement of the horse's back with your seatbones. The solid cantle has made the saddle more stable and I was able to dispense with the N.E.W. saddlesure pad with both Blossom and Prieto, who are respectively extra-wide and wide.

I'm in the process of sorting out photos of both the GP and dressage, from all angles, to go on Heather's and my websites.
 
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