Clicker Training

Hi not into Parelli or NH but I'm into my 2nd day clicker training with TJ who my daughter has had for a couple of months he's just 6, it's great fun and we are mainly going to use it for work on the ground and getting him to stand at mounting block, he seems to be picking it up but we are only doing about 10 mins a day, I bought a great book from Amazon and a clicker from Petsmart:)
 
Hi there,

I have had some great successes with clicker training. One particular rescue horse that came into my life 10 years ago, insured that I took the path of positive reinforcement training as he demanded that he was treated with a bit of respect ;) NH methods failed miserably with him, and I am eternally grateful to him for what he has taught me. My employer and I have recently taken on a rescue (Leo) who we are rehabilitating using positive reinforcement whereever possible and CT where appropriate. We have been writing a blog on his progress which can be found in the blog section of www.emmalethbridge.proboards.com/index.cgi Unfortunatly, you need to register to view (although we plan to remedy that by creating our own site soon) but there are loads of photos to support the text, and although early days, it shows the incredible progress that is possible when employing a more positive method of training.

I would always encourage those thinking of trying CT, to take the time to learn some about the science of behaviour and learning theory before picking up a clicker, as I have learnt that this understanding is vital to the success of CT. A good place to start would be to read the following;

"The art and science of clicker training for horses" by Ben Hart

"Knowing your horse" by Emma Lethbridge

"Don't shoot the dog" by Karon Pryor

Ben Harts book is great because not only does it highlight the fantastic benefits of CT, it also covers the important subject of how and why it can go wrong sometimes. Interestingly, CTs limitations are usually due to the trainers limitations :)

Julie
 
I'm reading Clicker Training Your horse by Alexandra Kurland, must admit I have to read and reread sections to fully understand it but it is so interesting and does explain it step by step, of course you need to understand behaviour and learning or you could make some awful c*** ups, but I'm finding it extremely interesting and can't wait to see how the future unfolds:)
 
i second doing a small about of reading before picking up the clicker. I've had huge amount of success with the clicker, both teaching a ferral new forest from a baby (now 2) to lead, stand still, be brushed, feet picked up etc. because its a reward based training we have never had to use fear as a way of control, resulting in a confident pony. i look forward to backing him using the clicker.

Another success, perhaps even more so is with my 18yr old mare. I've owned her for 6 years and in that time i have NEVER been able to get on her from a mounting block/gate/anything and seriously struggled from the floor. I've always had to had a leg up. That is until i used the clicker. She has previously been trained with the clicker so knew what it was all about (probably for a year or so). i decided to finally bite the bullet and give it a go. Well after a month or so of gradually building up to getting to stand by the block, first untacked, then me walking around, then me standing on it, then all again but with me wearing riding gear, then with her wearing tack, finally with her wearing tack, me in riding gear standing on the block i was able to just get on her. We have never looked back. I've been able to get on her every time since with or without using the clicker and anywhere. I'm now rewarding her perhaps every 2-3 weeks just to maintain the behaviour of standing still.

This is a good example of how a SERIOUSLY engrained behaviour (due to fear of saddle hurting in the distant past becoming habit) can be changed around, but it does take time (and patience).

so for teaching new behaviours and undoing old behaviours its a fantastic tool. The only negavitve draw back is you have to have good timing otherwise you could teach something you don't want.

An example of this with my mare was when i was teaching her to stand still whilst i groomed her, (also a big deal for her). all was going well until i clicked whilst she tossed her head. i did this 3 or 4 times (without realising it) and she was learning what she thought was head tossing gets clicks (even though i was clicking for 4 feet staying still). fortunately it is forgiving and as soon as i realised it i withheld the click until we had 4 feet still and head!

anyway, don't be put off by this. if you make a mistake, just remember there is always a way to fix it!! so give it a go.

good luck and keep us updated.

lilac tree xx
 
As on topic of clicker training culd someone pls enlighten me on it? I hav no clue about it. i do do NH already just not CT. I wuld just like to no some basic info + an example of how u wuld use this method, say for a horse that dosent like trailer loading + if a horse bucks?
It wuld b really interesting, thanks in adavance :)
 
Thanks for the replies. I do not know anyone who has personally tried it but all the websites associated with it say its fabulous (as of, course, they would) so I was unsure. My main thought was 'if its so brilliant, why doesn't everyone do it?'.
I now gather it does take a fair bit of research and patience so I will look into it. My mare's mostly fantastic, but a bit more control would never go amiss!
A friend of mine is about to pay £90 for a session with a trainer to teach her new puppy clicker training so that will be interesting!
 
CT is where positive reinforcement is used to teach a horse what we want. The reason the click is important is to speed the process up. Scientific research (although its not rocket science) shows us that if you get rewarded with something we like, there is an increased likelihood we will do it again. The click is just a marker, as it sounds like nothing else the horse easily recognises it and learns faster. they would also learn by just giving food but it would be slower (as the timing between the behaviour and the food entering his mouth is delayed) also there is a higher risk of him mugging you without the clicker.

so for a horse that won't trailer load you would work on ground work first i.e. trailer not in sight as its usually fear that causes a horse to not load. when they go forward, back and stand they are ready to walk between say 2 poles on the floor, then bales of straw, then getting narrower and higher. then to stand still between them. Then to repeat back to the poles with the trailer in sight building up again to the bales say 2 high and trailer partition width. You could also do work getting them to walk over different surfaces without then with the trailer in sight. Then you will have built the confidence up enough to attempt the trailer. The important point being don't rush them. if the behaviour starts deteriorating (sp) your going to fast. then do the trailer bit gradually too. so walk through, then stand in trailer for 2 secs and straight out etc. then on ramp, then two ramps etc you get the idea.

Although this is a lot to do, once your horse knows what the clicker means you should be able to get them in the trailer within a couple of weeks. (although obv. depends how frightened they are, how long its been happening etc.)

with the bucking horse, saddle, teeth, back, rider etc aside, you would build up slowly in the same fashion as the trailer and it would soon stop.

hope this helps

lilac tree xx
 
lilac tree said:
CT is where positive reinforcement is used to teach a horse what we want. The reason the click is important is to speed the process up. Scientific research (although its not rocket science) shows us that if you get rewarded with something we like, there is an increased likelihood we will do it again. The click is just a marker, as it sounds like nothing else the horse easily recognises it and learns faster. they would also learn by just giving food but it would be slower (as the timing between the behaviour and the food entering his mouth is delayed) also there is a higher risk of him mugging you without the clicker.

so for a horse that won't trailer load you would work on ground work first i.e. trailer not in sight as its usually fear that causes a horse to not load. when they go forward, back and stand they are ready to walk between say 2 poles on the floor, then bales of straw, then getting narrower and higher. then to stand still between them. Then to repeat back to the poles with the trailer in sight building up again to the bales say 2 high and trailer partition width. You could also do work getting them to walk over different surfaces without then with the trailer in sight. Then you will have built the confidence up enough to attempt the trailer. The important point being don't rush them. if the behaviour starts deteriorating (sp) your going to fast. then do the trailer bit gradually too. so walk through, then stand in trailer for 2 secs and straight out etc. then on ramp, then two ramps etc you get the idea.

Although this is a lot to do, once your horse knows what the clicker means you should be able to get them in the trailer within a couple of weeks. (although obv. depends how frightened they are, how long its been happening etc.)

with the bucking horse, saddle, teeth, back, rider etc aside, you would build up slowly in the same fashion as the trailer and it would soon stop.

hope this helps

lilac tree xx
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Oh right, i dnt get about the clicking bit. Are you sayin a clicky noise is a reward? To me there are 3 things class as a reward 1. release of pressure, 2. Rest, 3. food.I understand all the relationship + confidence groundwork, which i think helps loads as i do all that sorta stuff.

Thanks very much :)
 
I've successfully trained my dog and my horse with CT. Bot responded very well and picked up the new commands quickly. I never had any actual training on how to do it, but learnt from reading dog magazines.
 
There really is no ABC on how to clicker train anything as it all depends on the individual horse, the trainer, the horses environment etc etc ( the list of "it depends" goes on and on) which is why effort must be made to learn the science and theory behind this way of training. It's best left alone if one isn't prepared to do their homework first....I can't stress this point strongly enough!

Done well, it is an amazing tool, but done badly and without thought it has the potential to go very wrong, in my opinion, especially when mixed with pressure halter work.

Please do some reading and research before you pick up a clicker.
 
I love clicker training and it has helped me get over several issues with my horse- picking out feet and handling legs when he had real issues, teaching him to behave appropriately around people and recently we have been using it to teach him some fun party tricks but also his lateral work from the ground before ridden!

It really has worked fantastically and helped me to look for all the positive steps and be patient and help him figure things out in stages rather than getting annoyed and stroppy with him. He never responded all that well to negative reinforcement and pressure release as it just wasn't enough of a reward for him but with the clicker he is very clever and works things out so well and responds so positively to it!

The only draw back for me is that i am a little bit too soft and not firm enough to put him on schedules of variable reinforcement quickly enough- we do get there but if i was a lot firmer we would get there a lot quicker and he would be weaned off one behaviour and onto the next!
 
Hi marusenka,

It's soooo hard to firm about variable scheduals and I made a lot of mistakes in the beginning with the first horse I trained with CT. If you start out getting this bit right the learning is lightning speed and the clicker out of the picture really quickly too. One of the best things about CT, IMO, is that you have to watch the horse so closely because it is so procise and I am always astonished at the tiniest things the horse is aware of that we often aren't...until that is that we realise we have trained something entirely different to what we thought we were :D Do I recognise your name from Emma Lethbridges forum?

Julie (Leos blog)
 
I started clicker training about 5 years ago, with the 18 year old cob I was loaning - she was off work for quite a few months and I wanted to do something fun with her. I'm a psychologist and teach about learning theory, so thought I should put some of what I teach into practice :D

She loved it so much, and learned so quickly, I was humbled by how insensitive I'd been whenworking with her before, and how badly I'd understood her - all what I'd thought of as stubbornness and naughtiness was just bad training and anxiety.

Started riding again after the lay off, and found that we were able to overcome her fear of tractors, and generally improve her enjoyment of going out.

Got my own horse nearly three years ago as a green 4 year old, and decided that positive reinforcement had to be the main training tool. He loves it - I don't teach "tricks", I concentrate on the behaviour I want day to day - so everything from leading well through to lateral work under saddle. HE loves his work so much - as soon as I appear at the gate, he trots over - I can work him at liberty in the middle of a 20 acre field full of grass and he'll play with me rather than graze (and he chuckles all the time we do ground work).

1. release of pressure, 2. Rest, 3. food.
Click to expand...
From a psychological point of view, only food is a reward (if you study brain scans, rewards light up different parts of the brain). The others give a sense of relief - which is useful in training, but your horse won't seek you out and spontaneously offer to do the things you train with release of pressure. A reward is anything the horse will seek out - just like us, they seek out food, shade on a hot day, water when they're thirsty and rewarding companions. When you take off your uncomfortable shoes at the end of the day, it does feel good, but it's not a reward - you won't put the shoes back on just to experience the feeling again.
 
Great post capalldubh regarding the subject of reward.

Do you think your knowlege of behavioural science has been fundemental in the great success you have had with CT and do you think that without even a basic knowledge of learning theory, you may have had less success?
 
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