Sorry, should have PM'd you really. 
If I cross my chestnut mare with a chestnut stallion, will I get a chestnut baby?
If I cross my chestnut mare with a chestnut stallion, will I get a chestnut baby?
Chev... genetics question
- Thread starter casey
- Start date
sorry i'm not Chev but i believe that two chestnuts will produce a chestnut baby as the chestnut gene is recessive (sp)
I learned this from Chev herself at the excellent talk she gave on colours and genetics at a stud farm on Anglesey so I'm just passing on her info
I learned this from Chev herself at the excellent talk she gave on colours and genetics at a stud farm on Anglesey
so I'm just passing on her info
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attempted explanation
the base colour gene is either black (dominant) or red (recessive)
if a horse is black it can have either 2 black genes or 1 black and 1 red gene
the foal will recieve one colour gene from each parent
if it recieves a black gene it will be black as black is dominant
to be chestnut, a foal must recieve two red genes, one from each parent.
each chestnut parent must also have two red genes, otherwise they would be black, even if they only had one black gene.
so each chestnut parent has no black gene to pass on, it can only pass a red gene on, the foal will be chestnut.
confused? I am
the base colour gene is either black (dominant) or red (recessive)
if a horse is black it can have either 2 black genes or 1 black and 1 red gene
the foal will recieve one colour gene from each parent
if it recieves a black gene it will be black as black is dominant
to be chestnut, a foal must recieve two red genes, one from each parent.
each chestnut parent must also have two red genes, otherwise they would be black, even if they only had one black gene.
so each chestnut parent has no black gene to pass on, it can only pass a red gene on, the foal will be chestnut.
confused? I am
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teabiscuit is spot on. Chestnut x chestnut = chestnut, every time.
(Didn't realise you were at that talk teabiscuit - glad you enjoyed it! )
(Didn't realise you were at that talk teabiscuit - glad you enjoyed it!
)
Casey, now the Chestnut gene question is clarified, would you mind if your thread was broadened out?
If you take a gorgeous dark bay 16.2hh TB stallion http://www.louellastud.co.uk/primitive_proposal.php and put it to my gorgeous dark bay 16.2 and a bit heavy hunter mare, how likely would it be they would produce a dark bay foal. I don't know anything about Flora's ancesters, but looking through Louella Stud's site, Proposal's relatives all seem to be dark bay. Also would it mean I'd be likely to get something 16.2hh +? I really wouldn't want to go bigger, but he looks like the right man for her. can we make relatively accurate predictions about size.
If this broadens the thread too much, please feel free to delete it
If you take a gorgeous dark bay 16.2hh TB stallion http://www.louellastud.co.uk/primitive_proposal.php and put it to my gorgeous dark bay 16.2 and a bit heavy hunter mare, how likely would it be they would produce a dark bay foal. I don't know anything about Flora's ancesters, but looking through Louella Stud's site, Proposal's relatives all seem to be dark bay. Also would it mean I'd be likely to get something 16.2hh +? I really wouldn't want to go bigger, but he looks like the right man for her. can we make relatively accurate predictions about size.
If this broadens the thread too much, please feel free to delete it
Of course you can expand on the thread.
No matter how many times I am told, I cant seem to get this colour thing in my head.
GORGEOUS stallion BTW. Just beautiful
No matter how many times I am told, I cant seem to get this colour thing in my head.
GORGEOUS stallion BTW. Just beautiful
if a black horse has the bay gene it is bay
if a chestnut horse has the bay gene it doesn't show but it can pass it on.
so both parents have black as the base colour, which means they have at least one black gene each, and may have 2 black genes each.
if they have 2 black genes each, the foal will be black base colour.
if they have 1 black 1 red gene each the foal may get 2 red genes (foal will be chestnut 1 chance), 2 black genes (black 1 chance)or 1 red and 1 black gene (black x 2 chances). what is that as a probability?
and, do they pass on the bay gene in the same way?
if a chestnut horse has the bay gene it doesn't show but it can pass it on.
so both parents have black as the base colour, which means they have at least one black gene each, and may have 2 black genes each.
if they have 2 black genes each, the foal will be black base colour.
if they have 1 black 1 red gene each the foal may get 2 red genes (foal will be chestnut 1 chance), 2 black genes (black 1 chance)or 1 red and 1 black gene (black x 2 chances). what is that as a probability?
and, do they pass on the bay gene in the same way?
OOOOH primitive proposal is one SEXY horse! lol MY boss has a foal by him and it is THE most gorgeous bay ever! out of another Dark Bay. You sooo have to breed with him! lol
Its a little colt he was born on 6th July. They have started handling and he seems abit boistrous (wouldnt load at 2 weeks old!) Has massively long legs but is a really beautiful colour. He is for sale at weaning but no cheap price tag! Have also seen another good looking foal from him with big long legs at bosworth show, I think hes only been standing a couple of years so they havent got any mature stock from him yet but they are showing potential, he is also apparently not going to be standing next year as they are going to compete him so if you can get her covered this year because if he does well the stud fee will go up more!
This year is too soon. Next year is possible, but maybe the year after. I would want to use chilled semen by AI and with an established stallion they often make sure that is available when they compete the horse, so it maybe fine anyway.
poohsmate
Active Member
i willing admit to knowing nothing about breeding, but im intrigued as to why my horses sire who was a coloured stallion never produced a coloured foal no matter what colour the mare was
i suppose your going to tell me it's like all men it's whats in your Genes
i suppose your going to tell me it's like all men it's whats in your Genes
That will be because he only has one gene to make him coloured rather than 2 so although there would be a 50% chance of a coloured it just didnt happen!
The only time you're guaranteed coloured foals is by using a homozygous tobiano mare or stallion. Horses have two copies of the gene that causes tobiano; one 'switched on' copy means the horse will be coloured itself, but may not pass the colour on; There's basically a 50/50 chance of colour every time it's bred. The law of averages means that usually if they produce a large number of offspring, used with a solid partner roughly half will be coloured and half solid colour; but that's not to say it will definitely happen.
If a horse has two copies of the gene switched on it can only ever produce foals with that colour.
Same goes for bay; on a black base, a heterozygous bay will have a 50/50 chance of bay foals, and a homozygous bay will always throw them. Bay is just complicated slughtly by the fact that a chestnt horse can carry bay with no outward sign; bay only affects black pigment, and chestnuts have no black to show the gene's work. A chestnut can even be homozygous for bay, and will never throw a black foal even when put to homozygous blacks, because they will always pass on the gene that modifies black to bay.
If a horse has two copies of the gene switched on it can only ever produce foals with that colour.
Same goes for bay; on a black base, a heterozygous bay will have a 50/50 chance of bay foals, and a homozygous bay will always throw them. Bay is just complicated slughtly by the fact that a chestnt horse can carry bay with no outward sign; bay only affects black pigment, and chestnuts have no black to show the gene's work. A chestnut can even be homozygous for bay, and will never throw a black foal even when put to homozygous blacks, because they will always pass on the gene that modifies black to bay.
We are still debating Amicia's final colour, her legs are lightning out but her head is darkening, but she has black feet?
If you want to take a look at the pics Chev and see what you think I'd be greatful
Both parents are bay, but both lines have some grey and one side has alot of black/dark bay
Mummy's breed lines
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/leitrim+lady+cruise
Daddy's breed lines.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/freshman+b
If you want to take a look at the pics Chev and see what you think I'd be greatful
Both parents are bay, but both lines have some grey and one side has alot of black/dark bay
Mummy's breed lines
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/leitrim+lady+cruise
Daddy's breed lines.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/freshman+b
Just been to have a look and she's a stunner isn't she? She's bay, most likely dark bay. As she starts to lose the baby fluff from her legs, the coat will come through black, but bay babies are usually that pale fawn colour on their legs to start with. She may well end up a similar colour to Peewee, but she's bay without doubt.
Foal colours are often misleading... maybe I should start a thread on foal colour and coat!
She's bay, most likely dark bay. As she starts to lose the baby fluff from her legs, the coat will come through black, but bay babies are usually that pale fawn colour on their legs to start with. She may well end up a similar colour to Peewee, but she's bay without doubt.Foal colours are often misleading... maybe I should start a thread on foal colour and coat!
it was brillchev said:(Didn't realise you were at that talk teabiscuit - glad you enjoyed it!
I now know my horse has the sabino gene and will try to tell anyone who'll listen
I knew the bay stuff when I left the talk but remembering it is another thing
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