Can anyone advise?

J

jendie

New Member
Aug 20, 2008
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Near Boston in Lincolnshire UK
www.ramsgrovebeardies.com
I am a novice. About three months ago we purchased a lovely Gypsy cob. She has the most super temperament, follows me around the paddock and stable area and is generally very affectionate and eager to please. She is excellent on the lunge, responding quickly to voice commands to change from walk to trot to canter and stand.

She is an ex riding school horse and from the first day she arrived we were suspicious that at sometime in her past she has been badly treated. She cringed at the sight of a whip and was very head shy, problems we are steadily resolving. However, we have a difficulty with her ridden work which I'm finding difficult to understand and deal with. She kicks out very strongly when I use leg aids, even when I give so much as a gentle squeeze. It is worse on one side that the other, it is almost as though she is trying to kick my leg away from her body.

We've had her checked by the farrier, dentist and vet and no one can find an obvious problem. I can push her side quite firmly without getting a reaction, this behaviour only happens when I'm in the saddle.

I'm running out of ideas! Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

wendy
 
Sounds a bit like a mare with ovarian problems although presumably your vet has scanned and discounted this?

All I can suggest trying is voice aids and very little leg to start with. Is it possible she has had more driving than riding experience, I have often found cobs who have been driven to be extraordinarliy resposive to leg.
 
I'd have your vet check her over again with this behaviour in mind. Some herbal remedies may well help, such as Global Herbs Friskymare Plus: http://www.globalherbs.co.uk/horse/2004_pages/calmers.htm#FriskyMarePlus

What does an experienced rider(s) think of her behaviour, such as your riding instructor or yard owner? Does she seem uncomfy when you touch certain areas of her body whilst grooming as well as riding?

Good luck with her, you seem as though you're on the right track!

x
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'll get the vet to give her another look over. My RI thinks she could be bruised from too much kicking in the riding school but she has been with us for three months now so surely that should have healed? Her other thought was that the problem was more psychological than physical, she has developed a fear of being kicked (and who can blame her).

wendy
 
Yes, I'd have thought that any bruises would have healed by now phsyically, perhaps not "up there" in her head tho. I'd ask your vet again - but personally I think it might just be a hangover from her school days - and in time will pass.
 
Hi,

When your Mare does this, does she slightly hunch her back, put her ears back as if maybe she is angry?? I ask this as she could possibly be resisting going forwards, as in trying it on a little. Of course I cannot see you when you ride, so as always on forums we can only suggest possibilities. Anyway, back on track is she doing this to refuse to go forward?

Being from a riding school she will be especially dead to the leg compared to most horses and horses are good at doing as little as possible, plus you are still new to each other and she will want to work out just exactly how much work she can and what she can get away with!!! My mare is quite similar, also very touchy when in season as well.

Anyway just a thought, let us know.
Goodluck.x
 
Lottie dot you describe her exactly!! Her ears are right back and she certainly doesn't want to go forward.

We've had her checked over again by the farrier and vet and neither can find anything amiss, the problem appears to be psychological and at the moment she is definitely winning! When we try to move her forward she kicks with such energy that she can reach my heel. She does this whether or not I'm using any leg - though that triggers the reaction immediately - she'll also do it when on lead rein.

I'm at a loss as to what to do. I'm sure she has been badly treated in the past and I only want to use gentle methods and positive reinforcement....but I seem to be getting nowhere fast :(

I'm lunging her daily and she is happy enough with that.

I've had a much more experienced rider try her and they had exactly the same problem and told me to be 'very careful' with her. I think they thought she was dangerous :(

Any ideas on how to progress would be very, very welcome. I know she is a lovely character, deep down, and she is very friendly and responsive in ground work. I don't want to give up!
 
Definitely don't give up! Get her checked by your vet again to check if it is a "girl" thing. I had a lovely gypsy cob on loan a few years ago. She had done a heck of a lot more driving than riding and I was told to anticipate problems - she couldn't canter with a rider on initially and they thought I would have difficulties in getting her to move off from my leg aids - the leg aids weren't too much of an issue. The canter took a bit longer. We had other issues - napping etc to contend with. All in all in took about 9 months to sort these problems out. She was a fab little mare, lovely temperament and so willing to try - but if she didn;t understand she would react by either backing up/napping etc. I had a very good RI helping me out and also had a session with Michael Peace - who really helped with the napping.

It may be that you will really have to go back to basics with your girl - lunging and long lining etc, but I am sure with time and patience it will work out. I admit to getting frustrated at times with Vi - but for the very impatient person that I am - I have a lot of patience with my horses and the more softly softly approach worked for us.

Good luck! ;)
 
Have you tried a chiropractor? My RS horse was kicking out at times and he had a rib out of place and a few other small things that were nicely resolved by the chiro.
 
Hi Jendie,

(following info is for your mare as long as she is well)

What I would suggest if you have exhausted all possibilties that she is no pain (assume saddle fits ok?) as I see you have the vet, farrier etc all out then I would consider the fact that she is just not wanting to go forwards in terms of she has sussed out you are a novice and that she doesn't actually have to. Horses are great at sussing us out, i bet when she does this you hesitate and take your leg off and have a good old think of why this is happening and all the time she is happy to just plod around or even stand still being her reward. Another reason why this is a good possibility is that she has come from a riding school, so she has had a whole array of people sat on her, maybe some have kicked her, nagged her and generally not very polite - this will have made her become a little resistant as you can imagine.

What I would suggest formost is keep up the lunging and try and really use your voice, so when on board you can try some really simple transistion from walk to halt etc with just using your voice, then alongside lunging try long reining - this will be really good for her and you to gain your confidence with moving her around the arena again using voice aids. Remember to praise her as soon as she takes a step forward, by being soft in the hand and a gentle pat followed by a ''good girl''.

I am a HUGE fan of Richard Maxwell, in terms of I have read some of his books and really believe in what he all about out of the natural horsmanship trainers - in view of this I would really do some ground work. If you havn't done this before then OK - I will list some really simple but super effective ideas to try which will be of help to your situation.
First you will need a halter and rope (12ft) but you can use a headcollar and lead rope until then.
What your aim is for your ned to do is move away from pressure, so pick a part on her, like on her side and very gently put pressure on (keep that pressure on until she moves, so first it's her hair, then skin, then muscle then down to her bone) as just stated keep the pressure on until she moves away, the second she makes the slightest move, take the pressure away - this is what her reward will be and this is how she will learn - its simple but very important. So practice this until you can almost move towards the desired area and she will move away - again its so important the second she moves the pressure is taken off. So once this has been established, you should be able to move her hindquaters around, her shoulder and most importantly backing her up (making her move backwards)

The idea to all of this is, when you apply pressure with your legs, she knows to move away from it. This all takes times, but its all imortant. A horse that will not move away from pressure will just lean into into it and horse against human is no contest in strength!!!

Anway lastly get a wip wop (half the length of lead rope or maybe even a curtain tie) use this to swing over her withers - the idea is the horse moves away from the movement (think of cowboys when they swish their reins over the horses neck - it's the same idea) this way she has no leg is resist to and its really works - give it a go. (be prepared for her to move away from it, do not grap the reins if she does as she will associate it with a yank in the mouth )

I would highly suggest you get ''unlock your horses talent in 20 mins'' by Richard Maxwell as its great and packed with such imortant info. You will love it and as a novice will learn so much I promise. Definitely give it a go its a great read (plus anything else by him, cheap on Amazon) ~It will advise you on this problem and many others and really highlight how our actions have such big influences on the horse.

Sorry if i have rambled on and let me know if i have not explained anything very well or if you do not agree with anything

Let us know how you get on and good luckx
 
We had the sweetest mare in the world start to do this when asked to do leteral work, she'd almost manage to kick the riders foot away from her side.

On vet inspection he diagnosed arthrits in her hocks which got worse. It only started with lateral work as it hurt her to move sideways.
 
I'm feeling so stupidly chuffed. I've been lunging Breeze and concentrating on ground work but today I decided it was time to try to ride again. She bucked a few times but it was more of a strop than an intention to get me off. I used mostly voice commands but we managed several laps of the paddock with relative calm. We only walked but I'm feeling just so pleased with her. I was beginning to give up hope but now feel we may have turned the first corner.
 
jendie said:
I'm feeling so stupidly chuffed. I've been lunging Breeze and concentrating on ground work but today I decided it was time to try to ride again. She bucked a few times but it was more of a strop than an intention to get me off. I used mostly voice commands but we managed several laps of the paddock with relative calm. We only walked but I'm feeling just so pleased with her. I was beginning to give up hope but now feel we may have turned the first corner.
Click to expand...

BREEZE?! Has she got a wall eye? Did you get her from cottagers plot??
 
jendie said:
I'm feeling so stupidly chuffed. I've been lunging Breeze and concentrating on ground work but today I decided it was time to try to ride again. She bucked a few times but it was more of a strop than an intention to get me off. I used mostly voice commands but we managed several laps of the paddock with relative calm. We only walked but I'm feeling just so pleased with her. I was beginning to give up hope but now feel we may have turned the first corner.
Click to expand...

Not stupid it be chuffed, it sounds as if you're on the right track being patient and consistent :D Nowt wrong with working in walk, always best to nail walk before you try to run ;)

Do you know the (real) reason why the riding school were selling her? It sounds to me as if she's had an overdose of beginners and got fed up with being pulled and kicked around. My guess would be that she started protesting and found that she could intimidate inexperienced riders and make life more peaceful for herself by the sort of behaviour you describe. And who could blame her :rolleyes:

This of course is mere speculation, but if it is the case then time, patience and consistency alone could sort her out.
 
Breeze does have a wall eye....do you know her ?! She came from a dealer but had previously been with a riding school. I believe she parted company with the riding school after she persistently put on the brakes in the school and upset the children. The force of her kick would have been enough to unsettle, if not unseat, small beginners.

I'm so pleased with her progress though, a few laps of the paddock without a kick or buck and even ears forwards instead of laid back has really given me a boost. I feel I'm actually getting somewhere. She is a lovely character and I'm determined to build up our partnership.
 
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