Cair? What's your opinion?

D

derby day

bullet+farah
Sep 3, 2004
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Hi Guys,

Sorry if I confused you I tend to confuse a lot of people!!.Anyway this was my origianal question.You'll have to excuse me not very good with computers! managed to log myself out last night!

I was wondering what people think of the Cair saddles as I have 2 wintec saddles (both without Cair) and they have gone all lumpy (only 6 months old) and my horse has a lot of muscle wastage. I would like to buy a Bates saddle when I get some money! LOL.Has anyone ridden/owned one of these saddles and reccomend them?

Sorry again about the confusion :rolleyes: :p
 
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I don't like the idea of Cair. As far as I can see, when you trap air and then press on it, it gets hard. So how is this kind to the horse when the saddle gets hard as soon as a rider gets on?
 
Get your wintec reflocked - much cheaper and better for the horse.

If you look at pressure tests for the CAIR system it is no better than conventional flocking. The only air system that comes out better is the FLAIR which has better pressure tests than both the CAIR and conventional flocking. That was from research done by an independent investigator (although FLAIR use the info with great glee) who took the same saddle, horse and rider starting with CAIR. did pressure tests in W,T & C. Reflocked it with wool - retested, reflocked with FLAIR - retested.

The pressure on any air system is 'hard' when compressed the difference is that the pressure can be dispersed evenly. This is easy with the FLAIR because of the way it is designed and it is adjustable. The CAIR contains fixed 'pockets' of air so pressure dispersal is limited. I have also heard of the pockets shifting on the cair systems.

From personal experience my older mare hates all air systems - she bucks in a CAIR saddle and won't go forward in the FLAIR. My younger mare had a conventional flocked wintec isabell and went well in it. She was very stroppy and resistent in the same saddle with CAIR in. She now has a WOW saddle which has the FLAIR system incorporated in it and is going brilliantly.
 
Cair?

Hi!

Thanks for the advice glad I haven't bought one yet! What about laytex panels in true close contact saddles - do these go lumpy too? Also how much will it cost to have it reflocked (I've heard its about £100) Do you just take it to the saddlers or do they come out and assess the horse?

Sorry for all the questions I just want to be clued up before I do anything!!! :D

Also just to add how much are FLAIR saddles? (jumping style)

Cat + Derbyxxx
 
Hmmn disagree on the 'air gets hard' thing. If I sit on a swiss ball that displaces air too - but I don't feel it. Even if I put it on me and then have someone else sit on it - it may compress but I can't feel the other persons lumps and bumps.

OK so a swiss ball is big and doesn't replicate an airbag - but if you can use a snaplock bag or something similar to create the same sort of testing equipment - for instance put it between your two hands (knuckle sides toward each other) How 'hard' the air gets is irrelevant - what they are doing is stopping the two knuckly bits from touching and hurting each other AND because the air will shift around if you move your knuckles they still keep a void of air between them. Think how many air filled things are around - sports cushions, running shoes etc etc all used because of the cushioning effect of the air filled cavity

With regards to movement - the CAIR system is guaranteed for 5 years so any problems are fixed for free. A flocking saddle needs to be checked and repacked (generally) about once a year...

Nothing is perfect nor suits everyone\horse so if you stick with the basics No1 saddle fit is the most important - it is certainly harder to flock over CAIR so unless it is a perfect fit it's probably best not to consider it. When you try a saddle see whether your horse likes it or not - if not, end of debate really :)
 
To put FLAIR in a current saddle is around £250 - £300.

The WOW saddle which incorporates the FLAIR is £1400 but OTOH it is a saddle that you should never have to replace.
 
I have two wintec saddles one with cair and one without.

I have had no problems with either of them, so far the one without cair hasn't needed any reflocking and have owned this for 9 months now.
 
I'm a bit concerned now.
Monty had a stiff back last winter, and I was advised to get either a air or Flair saddle for him (he's a rotund New Forest, who changes shape every season)
Because of how he cahnges shape, and due to budget limitations, I went for a Wintec 500 with Cair. He's always much preferred synthetic saddles, fortunately I like them too.
I've had the Cair saddle about six weeks now, and have found I need to get a wider gullet for it as he's muscled up a bit more - I also think Wintec gullets seem to come up smaller than the gullets in other saddles as he has a medium-wide in his old thorowgood which is a lovely fit (but no air system) and a medium-wide in the new Wintec which is far too narrow for him now.
Anyway, I have noticed he has been much more forward going since we got the Cair saddle, however, he also gets much more hyper in open spaces than he used to and will throw in some bouncy bucky-leapy things when I ask for anything more than a walk. they seem to be high spirits, but now I've read negative things about the Cair (these are the first negative comments I have heard btw) I am worrying a bit!
He is still happy to be ridden, will walk, trot canter and gallop happily, and also jump. the only thing he didn't like was being lunged with the saddle on, he wasn't playing up, but did look a bit worried. I very rarely lunge with a saddle, always use a roller, but wanted to ride straight after. I got in touch with the Wintec people, as the saddle seemed to be bouncing a lot at the back (just up and down, not moving otherwise) and they said that the Cair really only comes into play whent here is the weight of the rider on board. So no more riderless lungeing with the saddle in place!
So is that he is indeed feeling more free with the Cair as I was told to expect by the back man, or is he feeling uncomfortable with it and bucking to tell me? He rarely bucks, and when he does it's high spirits - his evasion tactic of choice is to rear and he hasn't done that once, which leads me to believe that he is happy with his new saddle that allows more muscle movement in his back, but you lot have worried me now!!!
 
My mare Flora has the Bates Caprilli saddle with Cair and she goes very happily in it. I had the same saddle for my previous horse (with a different gullet and the saddler added some flocking so it was a very good fit for Flora) and he went very happily in it too.

I have heard that some horses love them and some hate them.
 
Cair?

Hey guys!

I'm really confused now!! Went on the FLAIR website last night and there is no way I can afford one of those saddles and I cant really see the difference between there air panel and the Wintec saddle Cair.I love my wintec close contact but my horse has become very reluctant to canter and gallop and I feel this saddle is resticting his movement and muscle growth.

I have put a wide gullet in and I always have used a Equigel pad.Also he has massive shoulders and a lot of muscle wastage so I think the cair might help correct this. ( the muscle wastage that is not his big shoulders!!) :p

Cat + Derby xx
 
:) You've fallen into the great debate zone ;) There are certain things that just seem to polarise people - barefoot, natural horsemanship (in fact anything calling itself 'natural'), cair\flair, bareback (and pads and treeless saddles) - have I left anything out?Bound to but you get the picture :)

For the record - I've had my CAIR Wintec 2000 GP for about 3 years now - no real problems. Yes I have to adjust the gullet every so often and yes sometimes I have to pad - but those are conformational issues not the fault of the saddle or its makers. In fact I've just bought a new dressage saddle, flocked and will have exactly the same issues. I don't buy into lots of the anti-CAIR\Flair stuff because it just doesn't add up - eg the 'hard air' argument but as I said there's nothing perfect and no doubt there will have been people who had problems (just as people have problems with any product)

If you have doubts about how your horse is under ANY saddle - put your mind at rest and get a good saddlefitter out to look at it, see how it behaves in action and with you onboard. So there's my 2 penneth. :)
 
Cair?

Hi!

Glad no-one has had a really heated discussion- I hate arguments :(

Am going to get another Wintec Close contact with Cair as I think a Bates close contact leather one is going to be to heavy on my ageing TB,but I do worry sometimes that as he has massive shoulders this forward cut saddle restricts his shoulder but the Wintecs are supposed to have flexible tree points to allow this.Thought about a Wintec dressage to free up his shoulders but I do more hacking and jumping so not the best saddle for me.

All I can do I suppose is try one out on him and see how he goes.Thanks for all your opinions and advice it is appreciated :D

Cat + Derby xxx
 
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