Bitting advice please (again, sorry!)

[Casey76]

I don't know where to start really.

I would like Pinto to be happy with his mouth, soft and compliant, not 'champy', but I'm still not there yet.

Bitting history:
Aug last year (when I bought him) he was in a single jointed bradoon (with bit guards) which he hated - went round with his nose amost horizontal not vertical. Steering was non-existant he went round with his mouth wide open.

Changed for:

Stainless steel full-cheek french link, with a flash. This improved the steering, and allowed me to actually take a light contact. Schooling improved, though if asked to halt he would stretch down and champ, a lot.

After a few months, I changed again to a german silver hanging cheek french link, which improved the champing, but unfortunately the bit was a 1/4in too small, and I felt it was a bit too snug.

After a call to Heather at Neue Schule I got a Salox tranz lozenge hanging cheek. He goes really nicely in this bit, but he is still so active with his mouth, champing and curling his nose.

The mouth activity gets worse when he is asked to concentrate, and on Wednesday when he was trying lateral moves for the first time we had this going on:

Now I know it's a good sign to have a 'wet' mouth, but come on... he looks rabid!

I also have to be honest and say that flash is as loose as it can possibly be without dropping over his chin (and it does do this sometimes). It is meant as a reminder, not to strap his mouth closed.

Any ideas as to what I could try next?

He has a low palate and a huuuuuuuge tongue. I'v had an offer to try a Dr Cook, which I might experiment with on Sunday, but I would still like to keep him bitted if possible, even if it's just occasionally.

 

[Yann]

I presume the teeth have been seen to recently? (obligatory question)

Possibly not helpful but I had a long and not very successful quest to find a snaffle Rio was really happy with until I tried a Sprenger KK ultra, I know a lot of people swear by them, but as is usually the case they're rather expensive The lozenge is more angled than the Neue Schule and lies flatter over the tongue, made all the difference for us anyway

 

[equestrian3241]

Horses with flash nosebands tend to "lather up" more than horses without, especially if they like their bits. They do this because the flash prevents them from swallowing and licking their lips as well as if they were being ridden without one. It's nothing to worry about just make sure the flash isn't too tight and that you loosen it a couple notches as soon as you are done riding and are cooling him off. PS) Very handsome horse.

 

[Sparklie]

Twig doesn't champ at all. He seems very happy with his bit and often gets foam. He's also in a flash and a few times he's managed to end up looking like your boy. I don't think it's anything to worry about unless you think that he's doing it for another reason eg: stress

 

[Tangle]

Do you have any photos of all of him in the same bit but not learning something new? It's difficult to tell from those pics, but it looks as though he's a little tense through the neck/throat - is it possible that his "champing" on the bit is a reflection of tension elsewhere? In those pics it might well just be because he was starting lateral work so thinking REALLY hard, but might be worth considering.

Other than that, we've also found KK Ultra's to be extremely good bits.

Hope you find a solution

 

[Chloe95]

ty

i put ty in a fash nose band the other day, he froths and i asked my ri(riding instructor) about it she said it is a good sign!!

don't worry!!

The chomping problem...

Maybe he is just trying to play with the bit my 6 yo does but thats because he thinks it's a toy!! possibley why he goes on the bit all the time!! Do you think so??

all i can say is...'don't fret pet'

how old is he?

hope i helped

clo

 

[Kris R]

Casey

First of all well done for having second thoughts about the current bit. Much of what your lovely Pinto is displaying is bit aversion behavior. The photos of Pinto show a very tense horse and really he is in extreme discomfort. Are you using a Harbridge training aid?

You want to keep him bitted …. Ok

1. You say Pinto has a large tongue and low palate – a hanging cheek gives one the idea that it is suspended in the mouth and somehow there is room for it in the horse’s mouth somewhere. It is suspended but it then impacts on the corners of the mouth, this can cause the horse point his nose out horizontally. It also causes poll pressure which some horses do not like.
2. A flash noseband merely tries to address the symptoms and not the cause – you are causing the horse to feel trapped, this raises his adrenalin levels and he won’t be able to focus on your requests.
3. You are right he shouldn’t look rabid. Saliva production is an involuntary nervous response to an item in the mouth. As far as the horse is concerned if there is something in the mouth it needs to be chewed and swallowed. In the case of the bit it won’t go anywhere because it is attached to a head piece.

Do ensure Pinto is comfortable with his saddle and as Yann suggested be content that his teeth are fine.

I suggest the following;

1. Remove the flash noseband and put it in a box
2. Remove that additional training aid whatever it is and put it in the same box
3. I would try an experiment and turn the hanging cheek upside down, don’t attach any reins to the small ring, attach the reins and headpiece to the large ring as you would to a snaffle. All you are doing is changing the action of the bit. It will lie across the tongue, because it is not single jointed it should not press on the roof of his mouth and will not create poll pressure. Use a loose rein and walk Pinto around the school. You can try trot but we are not concerned with a faster pace at this stage.

Please tell me what happens.

 

[Tangle]

Going down the testing line, have you tried riding him with no bit (reins on a headcollar or noseband, if you don't have a bitless bridle)? That would be a good way to find out whether the issue is something to do with the bit or something else. Just becuase you try bitless, doesn't mean you have to stay there very long if you don't want to

 

[Casey76]

Hi everyone

Thanks for all the great advice. I was going to experiment today (taking all the gadetry including noseband off nad trying my friends Dr Cook no bit bridle), but unfortunately all the horses were out when I got to the yard.

Pinto is currently uncatchable so I'm not sure when I'll next get to ride and experiment. He is off on a 4 day randonee with my rider next Thursday to Sunday, so it will be the weekend after that I'd imagine, if I let the YO know to keep him in.

I managed to enlarge some photos from my jumping lesson on Thursday (so the quality isn't that great), but it shows what a more 'normal' Pinto... i.e. not doing anything overly stressful (like lateral work), mainly walking and trotting, going over trotting poles and a single small jump.

 

[Tangle]

Shame you can't catch him . That's always such a pain.... Good luck for next weekend

The new pics look more relaxed - 2nd one especially (I'm particularly looking at his eye and the angle in his throught - the original pics showed a very tight angle, like an upsidedown v - the new ones are much more open and relaxed, more like an upsidedown u. He's also not pulling on whatever the second line attached to the bit is). If he looks like the last pic most of the time then I'd be far less worried than if he looks like the first ones