Ben's been a little wotsit today, lunging advice needed

JaniceH

New Member
Aug 10, 2003
1,317
0
0
52
Cheshire, England
Visit site
Ben was just in one of those moods today...you know hyper pony, just getting a bit fitter, autumn wind up tail type of mood :rolleyes:

My instructor decided that we should learn long reining today in the outdoor school. Bens done it quite a few times now, but only second time for me. Going round corner, helicopter in distance (Ben came from under the takeoff flight path in Stansted, so has heard planes every day for the last five years) Ben decides he is going to run, and has blinkers on, so not realising that Mummy is attached to him, turns and runs into me.....luckily only gets my elbow, but heart races a bit.

Carry on long reining, going really well... Ben decides that he has had enough, stops, then takes off for the gate...too quick for me to hold him back, so off he goes, reins flying behind him.... I think I went a bit pale at this point.

My instructor takes over (and I stand the other side of the fence :rolleyes: and gets him long reining again, but he is still a bit all over the place. On go the lunge lines and my instructor long reins him round in a circle around him. Like lunging but with two reins. Ben decides to alternate ignoring everything and bucking and plunging like a good-un. Everytime I think he must be worn out, and starts trotting round nicely, he throws in a buck and a plunge. Ben does eventually get a bit tired and starts working really nicely with only a couple more discussions with my instructor.

My instructor then said to me, 'did you want to have a go at this today?' and all I could manage was a faint squeaky ummmm no thanks :eek:

It wouldnt be so bad, but hes just on chaff and hay at the moment!!!

My instructor and I had a chat about that Ben is lovely in the carriage but hasnt had much schooling, and my instructor didnt at the beginning think that Ben needed as much schooling as he actually does, so we will extend the six weeks training if Ben needs it. His opinion is that Ben has never been really fit, and it just trying things on to get out of working, and that when he realises that he cant get away with things he will stop doing it.

How do I get confident with this, because being run into and taken off with, and then watching Ben doing all the bucking and plunging to be honest gave me the heeby jeebies. I know its practise, but how do you deal with bucking on the end of a lunge line? And most frightening for me, how do you deal with them whipping round towards you?? I dont feel like everyone horsey that I know, who can deal with rears and bucks and running off like its not much of a big deal, I feel like a not confident novice whos going to get squished or trodden on! (by an 11hh pony :rolleyes: )
 
I know that you know, one of the most incredible things about horses is often the way that they pick up on what we are feeling, and react to how we are unconciously acting.. I was thinking about this out riding the other day, and perhaps one of many weaknesses that humans suffer, is that we don't like to accept that horses have different moods too, and also that sometimes they will be feeling off-colour and sometimes they will be feeling full of energy. Instead we want them to be calm and well mannered most, if not all days. It's not a lack of respect on our part, it's just that we feel with all of their training and all of our lavish attention, that they shouldn't need to or shouldn't want to behave like that.

I think, the more you get to know a horse, the more you appreciate their varying moods and varying behaviours. Ferdie had one of those autumn wind up the tail days yesterday, I had planned to go for a calm gentle meander around the fields, but it wasn't going to happen, he was going to spook at every oppurtunity and he was going to jigjog when we got near our usual galloping places. It's not because he's badly trained or that our relationship is terrible, it's just he felt full of energy! I think that sometimes, humans have to 'go with' the mood of the horse there was no good me trying to settle him after each spook and telling him to walk steadily, he would just get tenser and sillier, so rather than start on that, I harnessed the energy a little - I set him 'challenges' asking him to really collect his trot, asking him to spin to either side, asking for snappy transitions canter to halt and back to canter again. Going for that gallop up the hill (but asking for the canter prior to the spot he predicts me ;) ) practicing flying changes (emphasis on flying) and allowing him some freedom at times too. The difference is, I've had Ferdie for 3 years and I'm beginning to know him inside out. You've had ben closer to one month, you're still at the very beginning of your relationship, and you can't expect to be entirely confident with everything. Things will improve, especially if you just allow things to happen a bit more, and accept that horses will be horses, and part of being a horse is being a little bit unpredictable and being able to have a run and a buck.

As Ben was blessed with the cheeky pony gene, your strength of mind and determination will have a huge effect on his behaviour. Note I said your strength of mind, NOT your physical strength. Have you ever considered why little ponies often behave well for those bratty pony club kids? It's not due to superhuman riding ability, more that they are DETERMINED to get over those jumps, or they KNOW that they can do something, and the ponies pick up on this. So each time you are with Ben, just try to keep in that positive frame of mind - things have a knack of happening how you imagine them to, so imagine things going well, dispel the bad thoughts, and things are likely to go far better.

Not so much practical advice on lunging here, I know, but I think that you are just so keen for things to go right, that sometimes you have to take a step back, try to forget your worries, and just enjoy yourself!

Rachel xx

PS, I think you'll find body language and mind language are the most effective tools for keeping Ben out on the lunge, preventing him from running in towards you. A rather intimidating glare, squared shoulders and a BIG defensive position on your part should be enough to tell him to 'keep out' until you say otherwise.
 
Hiya Janice sounds like he's had a day similar to mine little horrors they were.

All horses especially ponies have days when they try it on in all honesty you can't train that out it is the nature of the beast so to speak, all your instructor can do is to make them happen a little less often.

Have you read Kelly Marks perfect manners and Mark Rashids book if not i'll send them your way they helped not only my horse handling but my confidence around them.

As for the running through well done for not cracking your ribs :rolleyes: but I think he was just evading rather than directly going for you as he's not nasty enough to charge. As Rachel says a lot of what you need is based on body language and attitude, would you let william get away with throwing his toys on the floor stnding in the middle screaming that he doesn't want to (no) same for Ben difference here is mindset he may be cute and cuddly but he is as big as any other horse in brain or personality so treat him as you would Tammi or one of the others tou've ridden. Next time take the plunge and carry on long reaining maybe ask for your instructo to stay with you as you feel a bit edgy it's a bit like getting back on when you fall off if you get my meaning.

You need to get ben's respect in work and I honestly believe that he will be better in his work for it, I know it's not easy while he's not at home it may be one of those things to accept and get your instructor down into the home environemnt to help with. I can honestly say that having been run through by a 13hh horse it's not as painful as it seems.

I don't know enough about longreining to offer advice except that if he was lunged I'd put him in sidereins so maybe that would be worth trying interspersing that with the long reaining.
 
The way to handle it Janice is through determination as the others say. As your longreining improves you will get faster in your reactions which should stop the spinning around, as you will be able to beat him to it.

As for lunging, I think you just need to work him through it. Push him on, you are not going to tolerate this kind of behaviour! Use the lunge whip if necessary - he is a driving pony he is used to the whip as an aid. I suspect he is fit and feeling his toes for the first time :rolleyes:

If it is any consolation all mine have been known to buck on the lunge and to gallop around madly on it...I struggle to get them to take lunging seriously to be honest. I prefer longreining as I have the little devils under more control then!

The thing to remember about small ponies is that they can be very exerberant and excitable but it is just another exhibition of cheekiness - generally in harness they are fine. He probably needs some good hard work in harness to get the tickle out of his toes :D When mine were in that kind of a mood the best remedy was generally a good long fast drive and it seemed to get it out of their system for weeks. However daft they were on the lunge they have always been sensible in harness.

I wouldn't worry, just be bossy and stern and don't tolerate messing about - make the little so-and-so work even if not in the carriage then on the lunge - I sometimes take the attitude of..so you want to do daft so you..off you go then...and send them round at a fast trot/canter (depending on the pony and its schooling) and don't let them slow until I say so..that generally takes the tickle out of their toes too!;)

You are dealing with a different animal now, you have a small pony and sometimes I think they are a different species from horses:D He will be exuberant and try it on but generally they would never dream of putting a foot wrong in harness they just believe schooling is a great game that involves lots of charging about and an excuse for daftness :eek:
 
compeltely agree with the others! rachel has some very good advice about sometimes having to go with the horse, especially on a windy day when he is feeling well and full of the joys of mid-september! i had a day like that with petal on sunday - she's recuperating from a lameness, so we're just walking out ridden at the minute. try telling her that! we spooked, we shot off in canter when a leaf rustled menacingly...

it is very early days yet, and you weren't the most confident person to begin with - give it time, it'll come.

also, a lot of ponies do hooly around on the lunge - most of mine do, and if you saw petal on the lunge you'd never want to get on! she does handstands, plungie-wungies, loopy leapies, bucking and farting, and generally having a marvellous time. but under saddle she very rarely misbehaves.

always carry a lunge whip, and if he does geta bit close in his exuberance, don't be afraid to use it to send him away - a 'snake' in the direction of the shoulder is normaly enough to remind them to keep their distance. even is a horse doesn't need the lunge whip for upward transitions, i always, always carry one when lungeing for safety's sake.
 
Thanks for all your advice, it is really appreciated. I am a definately not the most confident person, I know that, and I dont want to appear that everything that happens is going to make me panic, it doesnt, its just that I suppose I am unconsciously trying to find ways of dealing with things that Ben does. So when he does the running off on the end of the long lines I know what to do, rather than letting him run off because I cant think quickly enough.

The only thing with the positive body language on the end of the lunge line, is that Ben wont be able to see it as he is lunged with blinkers on so that he learns to work off voice commands. Perhaps I will speak to my instructor about this a bit more.

RachelEvent, very good point about going with the mood of the horse, yes totally, when I bring Ben home, I will be able to spend so much more time with him, and I'll get to know his moods and get to know his personality. Its a bit like dealing with someone elses child, you are sure of the warning signals before a tantrum! Yesterday was a bit of a surprise, as he had been standing asleep being thoroughly groomed for half and hour before, and certainly wasnt jigging about, which would have given me some indication that he was in a skittish mood.

Shandy84, can I borrow your Mark Rashid book please :) and yes Ben was doing a throwing all the toys out of the pram, complete with stamp of foot :)

Esther D. My instructor says that Ben is so good in harness, that he felt is was just exuberance and just to trot it out of him on the lunge. At the end of the lunging session, he was having to really push him to trot, and he was working really nicely.

Es, thats a brilliant description: she does handstands, plungie-wungies, loopy leapies, bucking and farting, and generally having a marvellous time.
He was just like that :D Its making sure that I know what to do when he does that, so he doesnt either run off, go out of control, run into me, if I knew what to do, then I wouldnt feel so vunerable.

The problem with the snake lunge whip again is my instructor is schooling him in the blinkers as above.

So when Petal is doing all the loopy leapies, what do you do to stop her doing them?
 
i ignore her, let her get it out of her system, and then carry on with what i was doing.
is lungeing with blinkers a common practice for teaching driving? it doesn't seem enormously safe to me, for the reasons you're unsure about it, with the danger of the horse coming in to you in exuberance. i don't think i'd be happy about it - it seems to make things so much more difficult, not being able to use your body language etc and the horse not being able to see where you are.

i can see the logic of long reining with blinkers on, as then you're more in a 'driving' position, and the horse can, i presume, see you in its peripheral vision. but lungeing with them on doesn't seem all that necessary to me.

of course, bear in mind i know nothing whatsoever about driving or training to drive, so please correct me and fill me in if it really is useful and necessary.
 
Personally I do not lunge in blinkers, I longrein in blinkers but lunge in a cavasson or headcollar. However it is standard driving practice to lunge in blinkers - it is usually used as part of getting them used to the feel of the harness. I use longreining to teach them voice commands but I know plenty of drivers who also do it on the lunge. I am a bit of an exception as I don't like them to rely on the blinkers and sometimes drive in an open bridle with no blinkers (except in a tandem or pair where the blinkers are useful to protect their eyes from either the other pony flinging its head around - in a pair - or the reins which come close to the wheeler (rear horse) 's eyes in a tandem).

i can see the logic of long reining with blinkers on, as then you're more in a 'driving' position, and the horse can, i presume, see you in its peripheral vision.

When you are driving a horse or longreining in blinkers it cannot see the driver as its peripheral vision is removed - it only has its forward vision to rely on. The original idea being so that the horse didn't get frightened by the vehicle behind it, however I break them blickerless on purpose as I think a horse that has never seen what is following it is a potential liability - if something happens and it suddenly sees the vehicle I do not want this to be for the first time!
 
Last edited:
Esther your right about not seeing anything :D Kito did not see the post. He walked straight into it :eek:
 
a coupleof additional suggestions - from a non-driver...

1) pre-flight checks. Whatever else you think about Mr Parelli, I like this concept. When you get in a car to drive it you check: seat, mirrors, fuel, etc. When a pilot is going to fly a plane, they have a checklist before they go anywhere. Yet we get on these complex animals, often without so much as a thought....

Having a "pre-flight" routine means you can (a) check what mood you and horse are in and (b) have a routine that signals to the horse that its work time.

I often give me mare playtime before I ride/lunge etc. She knows that once the line is on, its work time. She lets off most if not all of her steam in playtime. (We still have our moments if something scarey happens).

2) build up your skills and confidence step by step

I've never been formally taught to long-rein. But I have been taught to lunge, and then added the extra line and started playing with it. I wouldn't say I was good now, but I'm better than I was.

So start with something you can do, and then build on that. e.g. if you are comfortable lunging, start with 2-line lunging then gradually build in different moves...

3) "how do you deal with bucking on the end of a lunge line "

when lunging, the horse needs to be moving around you, rather than vice versa. i.e. if you move your feet is cos YOU want to, not cos the horse has managed to get you to do it.

But they're much bigger than us, so we need to be smart ;)

Have you done any Pilates work ? Pilates talks about building a strong core (abdominal). If you use this idea, plant your feet in a strong stance, engage your core muscles, you will find that it is much harder for the horse to pull you off balance. If they behave and stay with a light pressure on the line, all is lovely. If they decide to be an idiot and hit the end of the line, any discomfort is of their own creation ! i.e. this is a passive holding. Not so much a brick wall as a weeble - you may be moved a little bit, but will always come back to your centre.

You will find you can allow a little with your hand - you don't want to jerk your own joints or their mouth/head. So imagine your contact is "springy" in that it will give easily at first, but then get "stiffer" in contact as the pull continues. So as the horse hits the end of the line you gradually add brakes, then when you are not giving any more, bring your hand and arm back to their original position.

does this make sense ? if not, I'll have another go :p
 
Thanks for all that, if one of my fears is that Ben will run into me, then having his blinkers on will mean that if he turns in, he wont see me until the last minute :(
CVB, what do you do in the playtime bit, I think Ben has the potential to not know his own strength, and could get a bit rough. He is the sort of pony that tries to get through the gate before you and then looks at me to say, oh did you want to go first... I've not had enough time with him on my own to fine tune manners like this yet.

Also what are your pre-flight checks?

I've only ever lunged once, so I suppose I am learning lunging, long reining and lunging with two lines all in one hit. There isnt anything (apart from walking in hand on the end of a leadrope) that Ive done a lot of. But I suppose everyone has to start somewhere.

The Pilates analogy is brilliant, that way I can be prepared for him to whip off, and not be taken completely unawares if he does. I did a very short course in pilates after my stroke and it helped my brain work out where the rest of my body was if that makes sense.

I am going to see Ben tomorrow, and will explain to my instructor that I want to work on lunging and longreining, as I am a bit worried about what to do and get him to really work with me on it. Hopefully I'll start to get a bit more confident with him.

Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it :D
 
Originally posted by Es
don't they have some peripheral vision behind them too? my gut feelings, esther, goes with what you say, that blinkers might be wa liability.

From what I could understand is that the blinkers stops them from seeing behind them in case they get spooked by the vehicle.

Esther feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or elaborate more
 
Miriam - I assume Es means they would be a liability on the lunge..rather than for all driving. And yes you are right, although as I said earlier I personally am happy to drive in an open bridle when driving single - the spooking at the vehicle thing comes from the days when everything was shoved in a vehicle regardless of temperament and suitability and there were some real liabilities on the road :eek: Now it is largely tradition in my view.
 
Janice

I'm lucky that the first place I had Fi had a round pen, so we got to learn "play" there.

"Playtime" normally consists of Fi loose (with over reach boots) - she'll wander first, have a sniff, have a roll. At this stage I tend to just be standing very passively on the side, so she knows she has some time. Then I'll bring my energy u[, and move into the middle. At the same time, Fi will finish her role and start to mooch around - in trot or canter. She tends to do circles or figure 8's. If she doesn't, then I'll walk towards her to move her on. And if she gets stuck in a corner, I'll move her on. She'll normally have a belt around for a few mins - I just make sure she does actually change rein rather than stay on her "preferred" rein.

Sometimes she will figure 8 past me - with a certain look on her face - and I pretend to "spook" her. Then she rushes away. This is definitely play not real concern - and is often accompanied by a buck. Or she'll come up to me and then dart away (without me moving) - sort of like horsey tag :rolleyes: She's allowed to buck and kick if its AWAY from me. But anything too close and I would move her on (like a lead mare would respond).

After a few mins, I'll see if she wants to come in. Sometimes she "tells" me she's ready, othertimes I ask (passive soft body language). When she comes in, thats playtime over and the line goes on. Some days she's not bothered about playing and comes in very quickly.

Pre-flight checks - are based on parelli but I don't always use all 7 games. i.e. we circle each way, back up, maybe a bit of squeeze or sideways. Or turn on forehand and haunches. This acts as both a warm up for her and a check for me.

Even if she's full of herself, the pre-flight check phase normally gets her settled and reminds her of the "rules" (i.e. that she respects my space and so on). I'll often see licking and chewing going on, and a change in her muscles and face to softer and less tense.

Just out of interest - we have a Fell pony that is not as "sensitive" as Fi. He tends to walk on to you, and is much more liable to turn his bum on you. He had laminitis and so his fittening work started with groundwork. He's still learning that he's not supposed to walk on to you, but he is much lighter to lead, lunges better (less egg shaped !) and so on as a result of doing the basic groundwork (move left, right, forward, back).
 
newrider.com