Banning Dog Breeds, your thoughts and opinions

[newforest]

As a species, we are extremely adept at making other species extinct, albeit accidentally sometimes. I don't think all xl Bully types should be euthanized, but all existing dogs should be neutered/spayed, and muzzles worn at all times outside. There are 3 adverts on gumtree, within 5 miles of my postcode selling xl puppies, or rather 2 selling xl, one selling xl crossed with a rottweiler (won't that be a cuddly, harmless little addition to the family!) I find that very disturbing. The only way to stop cross breeding and creating another monster dog, is to render the breed incapable of procreation. Banning them will never be entirely successful, but it will reduce numbers.

And it's the cross breeding that's the issue.

 

[carthorse]

@Huggy based on a lot of the Rottweilers I've known that's a dog with a high risk of causing crush injuries when it tries to climb on you lap!

 

[Huggy]

@Huggy based on a lot of the Rottweilers I've known that's a dog with a high risk of causing crush injuries when it tries to climb on you lap!

That reminds me of when we went to view a house long time ago. They had the most adorable rottie, who flattened me against the wall looking for petting - I couldn't move, she was determined to get her cuddles! OH did most of the viewing.

 

[carthorse]

Deed not breed!

 

[newforest]

@newforest I don't agree that any dog that gets in a fight with another should be pts, you need to look at context. Was the dog attacked and defending itself? Was the dog protecting it's owner? Many years ago I was walking my dad's dog in the dark after work, he was off lead in a field because he had good recall and no history of trouble when out. Another dog came over and threatened me, not listening to it's owner who then was also getting very close trying to catch it and get it on a lead. My dad's springer came bowling silently out of the dark, bowled over the bigger dog and had it pinned to the floor with his teeth at it's throat - would you say that was pts behaviour? I called him off as the owner got close enough to his dog to catch it as it was released. mine came straight to heel where he stayed until we left the field, the whole time he was on guard against the man and his dog. Yes mine "attacked" the other dog, but only to guard me and no physical damage was done apart from to my coat by the other dog just before mune moved in.

And that's why they are doing a blanket ban.
Because of circumstances
People who have living pets can still have their loving pets. You are being told to neuter and register.

 

[chunky monkey]

Dogs are supposedly descended from wolves which were chase/hunting animals. So any breed has a built in killing instinct deep down.

There are lots of dogs that were born during covid that are now in rescues because they were not socialized and are now reactive/ have aggressive issues. Should they be put down??

People would rather give them to rescues when they cant cope than get the help or take them to training classes. Then go out and buy another puppy.
Mind some training classes wont even accept you if they think your dog is aggressive. I had first hand experience of this 15 years ago with Floss. I was told i could not attend anymore training classes with her as she was considering aggressive when she diverted from a recall and rushed another dog. I told them she had some issues when i first took her. They never told me then that they couldnt accept her. It was only after about 5 weeks when she rushed the dog that they stopped me attending anymore classes. That was a supposedly proper run dog training group run by professional dog trainers accreditedto the kennel club. I was actually disgusted by there attitude. I thought dog trainers were supposed to help. Seems they only want to teach the nice doggies to sit, stay and lie down. They should be teaching the dog and owners how to socialise the dog and teach it not to be reactive. I said she needed to learn how to socialise, it became very clear as soon as i had her at a year old that she had not been allowed to socialise from a young age. They actually told me socialisation was to be done in the park. How could i socialise her when everydog she got near that she didnt know she rushed at. You cant socialise a dog if you arent taught the methods and instead thrown out the class.

 

[carthorse]

@newforest but neither of these breeds would be covered by blanket breed bans, and neither were guard breeds. Any dog in certain circumstances will show aggressive (defensive?) behaviour, and I've been bitten more times by small dogs than big ones - ok a bite from a Jack Russel type is unlikely to do serious damage to an adult, but a small child?

Years ago we didn't have this level of problem, not even close to it. There were still big dogs and cross breeds (we called them mongrels rather than designer names) many of which had God alone knows what breeding. I don't think the dogs have changed that much, but people have. In the past most dogs were trained, properly exercised, and socialised. People respected the dogs too - for example kids didn't go flying over to hug and pet strange dogs, the were left in peace to eat and sleep, you didn't walk into a friend's house or garden if they had a dog unless the dog was with someone it obeyed and you were invited in. Now it seems that the dogs have no right to space or respect, they're treated as living toys and any signs they aren't happy are ignored. We're to blame for all of this.

 

[newforest]

Which comes back to the hands holding the lead.

 

[carthorse]

Not just the hands holding the lead though, the people all around too. I've seen young kids go up to dogs on leads and fling themselves at them while doting parent looks on, if the dog owner says anything of moves between them and the dog then they're in the wrong as it's little Johnnie's "right" to play with the doggie. But if the dog nips or knocks the kid over there's all Hell to play.

 

[newforest]

Not just the hands holding the lead though, the people all around too. I've seen young kids go up to dogs on leads and fling themselves at them while doting parent looks on, if the dog owner says anything of moves between them and the dog then they're in the wrong as it's little Johnnie's "right" to play with the doggie. But if the dog nips or knocks the kid over there's all Hell to play.

So can we do a ban on dogs and cull of humans
As per the norm it's the minority ruining things for the majority.
I agree with the pronged approach, I just don't see how they will police it.

I was brought up to never touch a strange dog, you ask. But I do see people just stroking random dogs. It's as if it should be well behaved to be out in public, yes, but it's with it's owner and could protect them from you.

With all dogs being microchipped, they should know where all the dogs are right? Wrong.

 

[carthorse]

A lot of parents need to teach their children how to be responsible for their actions and that the world does not revolve around them. It makes me sound like an old fogey, but I can hardly believe some of what I see and hear from children and teenagers nowadays! Take this entitled attitude to any animal and it's asking for trouble.

Yes there are problem dogs out there, but that's not enough to ban a breed in my opinion. If a dog is on a lead then the only way someone is going to get bitten is if they go up to it, at which point they are at least partly responsible. In many cases I blame the humans in the dog attack stories - young kids shouldn't be left unattended with any dog, people shouldn't be going into someone else's garden or house uninvited, owners should have dogs under control in public - yet it's always the dogs who pay.

 

[Jessey]

So can we do a ban on dogs and cull of humans

No need to ban the dogs if we cull the humans!

 

[MrA]

By banning them are they making things like vet care (for neutering) and trainers less accessible for them? These places must struggle insurance wise to cover for a banned dog. I know they are being removed from our books at work and we've never had a problem with the specific XL Bullys that we see. I think it will work in the long run, can't say I ever see the other breeds that have been banned previously. It's sad that there will probably be a large number of them being euthanised before the ban comes into effect, like litters of puppies.

Ethically that is a very tough one to deal with but if they have been deemed unsafe, then I would rather they were just pts. However are they actually unsafe or do we just have no clue what we are doing with dogs, I'm not sure.

 

[Huggy]

I used to have to say no to children wanting to pet Alfie. He looked such a cuddly fluff ball, but he didn't like children. The grandchildren knew to keep their distance, but eventually he warmed to my granddaughter. We got him at 6 months, and he'd been left for a week in the past with a family of unruly, rather mean children. Job done - never trusted children again.

 

[chunky monkey]

I know they are being removed from our books at work and we've never had a problem with the specific XL Bullys that we see.

Are you saying that vets wont treat these kind of dogs.
Is that there answer to supporting the ban.
If thats the case i can see huge issues. Lots of illegal trading and dogs suffering horrible illness and disease from lack of treatments/vaccinations which potential could transmit back to other dogs.

 

[MrA]

Are you saying that vets wont treat these kind of dogs.
Is that there answer to supporting the ban.
If thats the case i can see huge issues. Lots of illegal trading and dogs suffering horrible illness and disease from lack of treatments/vaccinations which potential could transmit back to other dogs.

Yes, could be in support of the ban but could be for so many other reasons. I can only imagine how difficult it will be for vets to accommodate them. If it's a banned breed they would have to be completely separate from other clients and dogs. How would the ensure staff safety, what equipment would they need. Would a banned breed affect their insurance and risk assessments? I don't know, but like you've said I can see huge issues.

 

[Jessey]

I met up with my dog trainer/behaviourist friend last night, she’s going to bat for the xl bullies she works with, she’s said she’ll go to court to defend them if needs be.

 

[MrA]

I think all the large charities and animal welfare organisations are opposing it. The general consensus is that it shouldn't be about the breed it should be about the individual dog.

 

[Bodshi]

But how do you stop 'individual' dogs being bred irresponsibly? This was the bit that stuck out for me on that post I copied from FB:

"The people that are breeding these dogs generally are not at all interested in the health or temperament of the dogs they’re producing since it is size and colour that sells. Therefore these dogs are just thrown together without a second thought for the outcome. The outcome very often is completely unbalanced, genetically modified dog that has been bred simply to be the biggest they can be with no onus put on their health, their joints are also f*cked meaning they often live in pain making them bombs literally waiting to go off. These are the dogs that are the issue."

If you banned future breeding then you could potentially prevent suffering for many dogs. Although I suppose there'd always be another 'breed' to replace the banned one, and sadly many pedigree dogs are bred with health problems in the name of beauty I suppose. If only there was a way of regulating breeding.

 

[MrA]

The blue cross have legislation they would like to introduce which would go a long way to stop irresponsible breeding https://www.bluecross.org.uk/news/our-campaign-to-tackle-the-irresponsible-breeding-and-sale-of-pets

I'm sure all the other organisations have similar. I guess the aim is to not only put a stop to aggressive breeds being bred but dogs with chronic health conditions like pugs and bulldogs.