Back to basics with Hogan

[Huggy]

I've started clicker training with Hogan. He has lost respect for me and my space, and I've been letting it slide. Since we do virtually no schooling, except for a very little on hacks, I'm hoping to put a stop to pushy, disrespectful behaviour. We started this morning, with me on the ground, concentrating on not lunging for grass, pushing against me while leading and walking on when we meet ponies. I'm going to stick with me leading for a while, and any hints or advice would be very welcome.

 

[Trewsers]

Sounds like a good plan. I think so long as you are consistent, that works well. I try always to be fair with Zi, but I have to correct him each time, not let it slip. Because then when I do correct him, it would be unfair if he's been allowed to do something and now not allowed. I've never done clicker training, but I think a few folk on here have. I am sure @chunky monkey used it?

 

[Jane&Ziggy]

Clicker training is great if you have a horse that responds well to praise and likes food. Ziggy adored it but Sid can't see beyond the possibility of a treat, he doesn't get the connection between doing something and getting the treat. Maybe I'll try again with him now I know him better.

The thing about clicker though is that it's about getting things right. So rather than thinking about what Hogan does which is disrespectful and rude, you have to think about what Hogan does when he is good and polite. When he does those things, you can click him and reward him. So for example, leading (and I'm thinking about Sid here) - no reward for snatching at grass, no reward for trailing at the end of the rope, no reward for walking with his shoulder in front of mine. Reward for walking beside me with my shoulder at his neck, reward for speeding up when I speed up and slowing down when I slow down, and so on. It's a different mindset.

You can mix and match it with being strict, you may need both with an opinionated cob!

 

[chunky monkey]

Yep i have. As you probably read recently ive had some issues with Billy with just leading him out. It was my fault as i didnt address the issue quick enough.
Ive not used as much clicker training this time but used my whip to help guide us initially. Which has paid off. I have been using some clicker and treats too.
Hes also been learning some good behaviour from chunky. In that i taught chunky to touch targets down our road on in hand walk outs. Billy has started catching on and vears across to also touch the target as hes seen that it rewards chunky with a treat. So hes copying behaviour.

 

[Huggy]

It seemed to work this morning - he was rewarded for not lunging at his fave holly bush, for walking on when we met ponies,
and standing well when we met someone. I'm not so naive to think next time he'll behave as well, it would almost be good if he tested me!

 

[carthorse]

No advice as it isn't something I do, but @Jane&Ziggy makes perfect sense to me. I don't think going back to basics is a bad thing with any horse, after all if a house doesn't have foundations it's not going to last long come bad weather.

 

[Jessey]

I agree whatever route you go just try to be super consistent.

I have done some clicker with monkey but he learnt certain actions get him treats, so now if he’s feeling peckish I get unrequested actions - giving me his belly or bum, usually when I’m not paying attention and turn to walk away from what I was doing, straight into his butt

 

[Huggy]

I agree whatever route you go just try to be super consistent.

I have done some clicker with monkey but he learnt certain actions get him treats, so now if he’s feeling peckish I get unrequested actions - giving me his belly or bum, usually when I’m not paying attention and turn to walk away from what I was doing, straight into his butt

I have the feeling Hogan may be a bit like that - we shall see. Whatever the results, we definitely need to do some groundwork and get him listening to me again. At the moment he will get rewards for what he's NOT doing ie lunging, barging and planting in specific scenarios. I'll reinforce with voice commands such as walk on etc.

 

[Skib]

I'm going to stick with me leading for a while, and any hints or advice would be very welcome.

I cant remember whether or not you have a school, or some poles?
I have taken Ella in the school for a leading lesson. I mean, me teaching her to be led nicely.

If you have some poles, walking up and down through poles laid parallel on the ground. Or poles can be laid out to create an S shaped maze and one leads the horse through this in walk, poisitioning the feet so they remain witin the poles. This comes from Intelligent Horsemanship. Kelly Marks may have something on line.

Michale Peace would start every demo by leading the horse in walk, Halt walk transitions, expecting the horse to stop when he did. If the horse came too far forward he would come in front of it and back it up and then walk again till the horse stopped excatly whenb he did. The he began to lead round obstacles and over a tarpaulin. I dot feel able to do more with Ella but Peace used umbrellas and goung through narrow spaces.

I have a book which is a sort of anthology of ground work.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Groundwork-Training-your-Horse-Exercises/dp/0715324411/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3ILJ8CLQDQIXM&keywords=lesley+bailey+ground+work&qid=1675096926&sprefix=lesley+bailey+ground+work%2Caps%2C66&sr=8-1

It gives ideas fron a selection of trainers and I preferred to use the trainer's own books - however it is a good taster and if you like a particular trainer, there is Youtube - so much is now on line.

 

[Huggy]

I cant remember whether or not you have a school, or some poles?
I have taken Ella in the school for a leading lesson. I mean, me teaching her to be led nicely.

If you have some poles, walking up and down through poles laid parallel on the ground. Or poles can be laid out to create an S shaped maze and one leads the horse through this in walk, poisitioning the feet so they remain witin the poles. This comes from Intelligent Horsemanship. Kelly Marks may have something on line.

Michale Peace would start every demo by leading the horse in walk, Halt walk transitions, expecting the horse to stop when he did. If the horse came too far forward he would come in front of it and back it up and then walk again till the horse stopped excatly whenb he did. The he began to lead round obstacles and over a tarpaulin. I dot feel able to do more with Ella but Peace used umbrellas and goung through narrow spaces.

I have a book which is a sort of anthology of ground work.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Groundwork-Training-your-Horse-Exercises/dp/0715324411/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3ILJ8CLQDQIXM&keywords=lesley+bailey+ground+work&qid=1675096926&sprefix=lesley+bailey+ground+work%2Caps%2C66&sr=8-1

It gives ideas fron a selection of trainers and I preferred to use the trainer's own books - however it is a good taster and if you like a particular trainer, there is Youtube - so much is now on line.

Sadly no school or poles, but as you say, there's a lot on YouTube - I'm going on there as I go along. Thanks for the links. I agree, the walk,halt, walk is useful.

 

[Huggy]

Just started watching hannah weston on you tube - very useful, particularly learning how to use clicker and food with a food oriented horse.

 

[chunky monkey]

Have a look at melanie s watson on you tube, theres one on there about re molding the behaviour of food aggressive horses.

 

[newforest]

Clicker with food wouldn't work for us, she would just be focused on the food rather than paying attention to the what do I do or not do for that then.
I made the mistake of taking a carrot out with us once. I couldn't recall what pocket it was in, but she sure lit up when I unzipped the right one! I gave it to her, but it actually made her more of an in your space nuisance!!
We also hacked out with someone who clicker trained and gave her horse treats on the ride. That really piddled mine off, not just the constant stopping, because I do pause, but the other house was crunching treats

She gets a thank you treat once back at the field and she's untacked.

Someone has mentioned target training, when I did parelli it was called put your nose on. Same difference, but don't treat. Rest or rub, whatever your horse associates with reward.

Decide what you want and be consistent. I don't expect mine to walk next to me, she doesn't want to walk next to me. She walks slower than me so is slightly behind.

For poles, any long bit of wood will do from a tree, or wooden fence post. I have made an s bend from lunge lines. You can get pool noodles, barrier tape or just use cones to weave in and out of as a visual aid.

 

[Huggy]

All food for thought - see what I did there?
I'm going to try and get out tomorrow, and will see if the treats are going to be counter productive.

 

[Jane&Ziggy]

I think there's a bit of trial and error, isn't there? I was certainly amazed by the difference between Ziggy and Sid. Both very food oriented, but Ziggy immediately got the idea that he was supposed to do something for it.

 

[Kite_Rider]

I think there's a bit of trial and error, isn't there? I was certainly amazed by the difference between Ziggy and Sid. Both very food oriented, but Ziggy immediately got the idea that he was supposed to do something for it.

I think sometimes the cobs can take a bit longer to ‘get it’ I used a form of clicker with Belle, she picked it up straight away despite being very good orientated.
Maggie, my friends big cob cross shire is also very food orientated and used to mug, but has realised when I make my click to Belle, Belle gets a treat, so now when I click Belle, Maggie will also wait patiently for a treat too, she never tries to mug me now, which is nice.
I’d say to you @Huggy my only advice is whatever you decide to do, consistency is key. Good luck

 

[newforest]

I think there's a bit of trial and error, isn't there? I was certainly amazed by the difference between Ziggy and Sid. Both very food oriented, but Ziggy immediately got the idea that he was supposed to do something for it.

Mine likes to have a purpose.
So the doing something needs to have a point, rather than me just doing it.
I love all the trec stuff, the obstacles, she on the otherness doesn't. The feedback from the video entries was that she didn't know what she was meant to do.
But the feedback from the photo entries was great because she did. We both did.
My understanding of Clicker is the treat is used to connect to the click and then dispensed, for what you want.
I have visions of mine looking at me and saying I have done that and all do is Click, what are you a chicken! She gets a good girl, or a rub.

 

[Jessey]

They definitely do all learn differently, tell Jess ‘good girl’ and she appreciates it and carries on, monkey on the other hand takes ‘good boy’ to mean thanks you’re finished and going to get a fuss (I really only gave him treats by hand very occasionally). Admittedly I must have inadvertently taught him that but didn’t notice until I rode and said ‘good boy’ and pretty much whatever speed you’re doing he slams the breaks on and waits so I had to switch to saying ’nice’ for reassurance when riding and only use ‘good boy’ when we’re finished.

 

[chunky monkey]

Yes that was one bonus with billy on a hack. I clicked he stop dead for a treat. It had its uses and was the best distraction when the buses were heading straight for us.
Because i havent entirely stopped him from being food oriented i just stop using treats for a while. Hes tried mugging my pocket a few times this week but i havent had an in there so hes gradually stopping mugging.
Chunky is so different. I taught him to say please for a reward. He does it so nicely and gently. Never really mugs me, more a sniff and a nug. Billy will say please voluntarily to but gets frustrated if i dont give anything and then the please turns into a strike out with the front foot. For people who dont understand they see it as form of aggression but i know its just his way of releasing the frustration as he doesnt understand what is being asked but he also does try to push the boundaries.
Having definitely had positive results from clicker training its something i would like to do more of but i need more guidance and training myself before i can teach the horse.

 

[Kite_Rider]

They definitely do all learn differently, tell Jess ‘good girl’ and she appreciates it and carries on, monkey on the other hand takes ‘good boy’ to mean thanks you’re finished and going to get a fuss (I really only gave him treats by hand very occasionally). Admittedly I must have inadvertently taught him that but didn’t notice until I rode and said ‘good boy’ and pretty much whatever speed you’re doing he slams the breaks on and waits so I had to switch to saying ’nice’ for reassurance when riding and only use ‘good boy’ when we’re finished.

Definitely, say ‘good girl’ to Belle and the brakes go on sharpish too! I think that’s something her previous owner taught her. She also used to look around for a treat if we were out hacking and stopped, she’s stopped doing that now though as it never got a treat reward from me.