Another question about Bonfire...

Tootsie4U

Tootsie4U

New Member
Aug 19, 2002
5,654
0
0
PA, USA
Visit site
Going on two months now that Bon's been broken under saddle. To my amazement, he is lazy. Everyone describes him, including myself, as a hot, stubborn, too intelligent morgan gelding so this comes as a surprise.

Our training is not going all that smoothly either. First off, he's scared witless of the crop despite my many attempts to sack him out with it. He has a hard time standing still while Im mounting (which I think relates back to previous saddle problems/pain). Once mounted, he gives me a generous 12 seconds to get gathered and then I'd better be ready. Walking is fine, so is steering, halting is getting much better. However, when I ask for transition to trot its grunt, tail swish, hop into trot. And, then Im lucky if he gives me a complete once around the ring before stopping on a dime and almost throwing me out over his head. He has his days and sometimes we resolve to a mutual understanding, but other days its 100% attitude. He's only bucked with me one time, and that was recently...pretty serious bucks too.

Some of the things I've tried so far are as follows:

wont stand still while mounted: tried 1.) verbally telling him he's bad 2.) turning him in a circle every time he moves to convey "so you wanna move, fine we'll move, but its gonna be work".

where's the gas? Since he freaks when I tap him with the crop, Im forced to use more leg aid than I want to.

mounting - I usually (8 out of 10 times) have someone there to hold him for me but thats just a quick fix anyway.

Since this is my first time breaking/training a horse, Im wondering if its just Bonfire or if this is a typical problem most horses go through. I also wonder if Im being as clear as possible with my aids ---

Just looking for some reassurance from anyone with experience. If its just a matter of saying "TOOTSIE HAVE PATIENCE" please feel free to speak up! :D
 
When did he learn leg aids? He's been under saddle (I dislike the term "broke") for two months--horses don't instinctively KNOW leg aids, they must be taught them. Many horses are classified as "lazy" when the truth is that no one has ever taken the time to sytstematically teach leg aids, but just assumed that all horses know what a thump to the ribs means.

At this stage, if I were you, I would still be operating almost entirely with the voice aids he already knows. He lunges, with your voice aids; I would be treating riding almost exactly like a lunge session--except that you are on his back rather than in the center of the pen.

Once he is responding well to voice aids, THEN I would start teaching him that the leg aids you are giving mean the same thing as the voice aids. Responding well means no resistence, no hop grunt, no stopping after one circuit; responding well means responding to your voice under saddle just as well as he does on the lunge.

If that means that you need to ride in circles going "trot, trot, trot, good boy, trot trot, trot" then that'sprobably the right thing to do.

Remember, too, that he needs to build up his back muscles to carry your weight. Horses may be *able* to carry people, but that doesn't mean that the muscles are all in place right away. It is entirely possible tht he simply isn't able to comfortably carry you at trot yet. If you can't get a decent trot out of him, then I'd stick to walk for another few weeks, months--until he can easily carry you at the walk for 45 mins or so. Then start trot sessions that last no longer than 10 mins.

As for mounting, I have a page on that one:
http://trainersnotes.lorienstable.com/stand_for_mounting.html
 
Like Galadriel, I think Voice Commands are the way to go. I trotted Dolly under saddle for the first time today, and all I had to do was say "Trot". She responded instantly :D
 
Patience Tootsie!~

See I said it myself!

Galadriel - Gotta love your pages! :D lol Havent read it yet, but I will.

As you suggest, I supplement my "leg squeezes" with voice commands every time no matter what Im asking, whether its walk, trot, or whoa. Its not getting him to do it initially thats the problem, its keeping him at it. That goes for halt, walk and trot. I can ask for halt and he will... but only shortly. I can ask for walk or trot and he will do it, but as soon as he's distracted or doesn't feel like it anymore its sudden stop - no matter if I use my voice or "squeezes". He knows voice commands extremely well so that cant be it.

But, as you hinted on, I agree and maybe think that he just isnt 100% sure of what he is SUPPOSED to be doing.

One other thing - he has adapted that the sound of "Good boy!" means "oh, she's happy, I can stop now." Also, this contributes to those sudden stops I was talking about .... hee hee
 
your last paragraph leaves me hanging Galadriel (talking about your link here, not your reply). I was reading each paragraph and saying, "Ok, he does that, he's good there" - up until the end.

I think he remembers that mounting hurts from when his saddle was two sizes too small. That issue has been resolved and was a huge learning experience. But, I think thats where the problem lies with mounting. He will stand like a statue even if I walk away to the other side of the ring (tried that). Its just when I go to lift my foot into the stirrup that he starts walking backwards.

What do you think?
 
If it's memory of pain, then you have to convince him that it's not painful anymore.

My first impulse is to say that you should get someone to hold him while you mount/dismount a bunch of times (from left and right, too, to break it up a bit); eventually he'll realize it's not hurting and relax. May take several sessions, mount/dismount 4-5 times or so. You're the one there, looking at your horse; you evaluate what amount of repetition he can take :)
 
Galadriel - book marked that page for future reference. The whole plywood thing may be a huge help! Give him something visual to use in addition to the spoken word. Thank you!
 
another useful thing for babies is to be really happy and enthusiastic when you ask for upwards transitions and keeping going in trot - really bright, upbeat voice and 'come on bonfire! are you ready! let's have fun, let's TROT! cone on,you can do it, what a clever boy, keep going, well done' etc etc and don't shut up until he's done what oyu want and you've come back to walk from your decision.
you'll feel a bit daft, but it does help to enthuse them.
it may also help to go forwards a bit and almost go into jumping position for a while as well - this will take your weight off his backa bit and make it easier for him to move underneath you.
 
newrider.com
Top Bottom
Back