3 year olds havin babies? Help me on this one...

[Cala Forlorn]

Hey kids! So I've been scouring the Southern California region for a pony. I found a guy with a lovely little girl. She looks like a quarter cross. She's about 13hh. She's 3, started with ground work, NO ONE has been on her yet (woo hoo!) BUT...she has already had a babe.

The filly is 6 months. Her sire was a papered Quarter and she should top out at around 14hh. She comes along for the price. They are attached and the mare gets a little nervous. I think no one has really seperated them or made her do any serious work for a while.

Isn't she a bit young herself to be bred already? From the sound of things, it was an accident. Could there be any damage to her? I guess this happens in the wild all the time... If she's capable of gettin preggers, well then.

I feel bad for the 2. The guy said he was going to start a pony ride biz, but never followed through. He doesn't sound very knowledgable on anything equine. (When I 1st asked how many HH...he said "Huh? What's that mean? I had to bring a tape measure!)

Do I have the time for this? My heart is saying take them. My head is saying I'm tired already! And what about any damage to her. I know he hasn't had anyone on her. He's too busy and, I think, frightened of horses! She does act a bit shy until you get a hold of her. She ponies calmly, she responds to line work and she understands pressure to her sides means I want her to move. In other words, she's smart. Just a bit barn sour. And really attached to her babe! Good lil momma....

What would you do?

 

[Afellpony]

I personally wouldn't want a 3yo to have a foal but that would probably happen in the wild anyway. If you like her though buy her.
What I would do if that were my pony, I'd turn her away for a few months and just play with her and handle her. Let he recover from having the foal and develop some more before doing any work with her. You could also take her for some walks and get her to see things a bit.

 

[lachlanandmarcu]

Its not uncommon for horses destined for competition to be backed then put in foal at 3, then broken at 4 and onwards. Not sure what I think of it, but its fairly routine....

 

[Mehitabel]

yes, it can well be a problem. to be put in foal at 3 for it to be born at 4 is a different proposition as the horse grows an awful lot between the ages of 2 and 3.
if she wasn't fed adequately for both her own needs and the foetus's, then there may well be issues with bone density and general growth. a broodmare will pretty much always feed and nourish the foetus first and stint her own body if needed, so if she didn't have plenty of nutrition herself then she will have stinted her own growth and health for the foal. even putting into foal at 3 you have to be particularly careful to avoid this.

in the wild it does happen, but life expectancy is much shorter and once mare has popped out 3 or 4 foals she has 'done her job' in terms of propagating her genes and may well be physically worn out and not long for the world - not expected to be ridden and live for up to 30 years. it doesn't 'matter' in the wild if the mare is stunted, providing she can still have a couple more foals - mother nature doesn't care about the mare's wellbeing, it just wants her able to breed.

at 6 months the foal is ready to wean and mum ready to start some work - i'm not surprised in the slightest that there is separation anxiety if they've already been parted and mum ridden while foal was so young.

 

[Dlux]

in the wild it does happen, but life expectancy is much shorter and once mare has popped out 3 or 4 foals she has 'done her job' in terms of propagating her genes and may well be physically worn out and not long for the world

Just curious as to where you get this information? Seems like unresearched - top of the head type of info. Take the wild mustangs here in the US. They are finding many of the older ones are in their 20s - mares and stallions. And many of the mares who are brought in off the range as 4 or 5 year olds who have obviously had foals previously will still "catch up" on growth a bit between 4-7 years of age and have made wonderful riding mounts for people well into old age by domestic standards.

I believe if this mare checks out OK otherwise by a vet, she will probably be fine - especially if she receives good nutrition and care from here on out.

The only question is if, Cala, you are ready to deal with the training that will go into this. Its going to be a lot more work on your part than getting an already trained horse. If you are up to the challenge, then I would say go for it.

 

[Mehitabel]

my vet told me that the average lifespan for a wild horse is 10 or so. we have the feral-but-owned new forest ponies, and yes, when they are brought in off the forest as adults they go on to live a normal domestic lifespan. but if never brought in, breeding every year, no extra nutrition, foraging for food in an often very poor environment, they won't be as healthy (by domesticated standards) or long lived as a domestic horse who has plenty of high quality feed, veterinary care etc. perhaps the environment the mustangs live in is different.

however, my point was that breeding while still young enough to be growing is not conducive to a long or healthy life because it doesn't matter how long the mare lives after she has had a couple of foals. if she lives to be 20 and have 17 foals then that is a bonus from nature's point of view, but once she has done her job and propagated her genes a few times then she is 'expendable'.

breeding does 'wear them out' faster than ridden work - i've seen plenty of broodmares who were looking old in themselves at 20 or so and very few who were still hale and hearty in their mid or late 20s, whereas comparing the ridden ponies (same breed, same types of homes, similar standard of care), unless they've had a very hard life and a lot of miles on the clock they go on until well into their 20s and 30s.

yes, one foal at 2 is not likely to ruin the mare for everything, but it could well mean that she lacks bone density, she may have teeth trouble or not reach her genetic potential for size.

 

[Wally]

A pony kept out on the hill here, all its life will have a far, far shorter life span than one kept in bye and fed and not bred every year.

As a one off accident, she might be worth the risk, I'd get a vet's report on her though.

 

[Welsh_Girl]

Its normal here for a mare that is destined to be competed to be put in foal at 2, then broken as soon as the foal is weaned. That way should she be any good there is already one progeny on the ground.

As long as she was not under nourished there should be no reason why she shouldn't be normal and healthy. I'd recommend a vet check on both just as standard proceedure when purchasing a horse.

 

[Dlux]

See they use to think the same thing about the mustangs until very recently. They live in very rough terrain and with constant breeding, it only seemed common sense that they would have a drastically shorter life span. But then they started studying the older horses and were very surprised to see the number of 20 year olds. Is it the 30's that some domestics live too? No, but 20 something is pretty darn respectable when they use to think they only made it till 10 or so.

My point being that if mustang mares living in harsh environments and sparse grass can make it to their 20s, I highly doubt the single early breeding of a domestic mare is going to weaken her all that much.

IMO, poor nutrition and bad conformation would be bigger concerns.