This just doesn't look right...

[Nayds]

I don't know maybe it's just me but I don't think this looks right...

It's an American Saddlebred. The more I read about what the breed is used for the more I am not a big fan.

Take the whole tail set thing. That makes me feel sick.

Anyway heres the pic.

 

[cdancer26]

I agree. I'm no professional but the whole thing seems very un-natural. I don't really like the way it looks either.

 

[CMR]

This horse was most likely a Saddleseat horse originally and then re-trained for huntseat. In Saddleseat, that is the desired headset. However, it still looks a little too odd for even a Saddleseat headset. It's probably a combination of weird conformation, weird training, and weird angle.

 

[Tootsie4U]

Could we be more specific and discuss *what exactly* you dont like?

The breed is used largely in, Saddleseat, Park and English Pleasure, disciplines which come into alot of controversy, particularly certain (and sometimes illegal) training styles. But many other breeds show in those classes as well, including my beloved Morgan.

I've known my fair share of Saddlebreds. While I'd truly not want one myself, the ones I have known have been nice horses. They have strong personalities - more of a dog type than anything. Dont blame a breed for the wrongdoings of a discipline.

BTW, this isnt a super good example of the breed either - for what its worth.

 

[KateWooten]

Let me tell you about my Rosie. Rosie is half saddlebred. She was created only to show as a National Show Horse. A new, invented breed (all breeds are invented of course - this one is just newer than most - Georgian Grande is another recent invention) the National Show Horse has no use at all except to show as a great example of itself ! And Rosie was discarded as soon as it was clear that she was neither big enough, nor flashy enough to enter the show ring. Fortunately for her, she was discarded as a youngster with very little training. No chains on her ankles, no 300lb guy pounding her 2 yr old back (and look how long that back is), no 6 inch shanked bit (for collection, you know ?), no broken tail, no gingering (yes, I will let you imagine where the raw ginger is used to elicit that wild-eyed, high-stepping, high-tailed look).

I brought Rosie home and immediately understood from everyone that I was a fool. I'd bought an idiot crossed with a lunatic and there was no hope for her (or me). In a way they're right. What role is there for a horse that looks like the one in your picture ? If she is not good enough to win as an example of that - then what use is she for anything else ? I think the huge lunacy that showing has become is epitomised in the Saddlebred and the National Show Horse. Rosie's full siblings sell as two year olds for either $10,000 or $500. I leave it to you to guess which Rosie was.

Rosie can walk really quite competently on her own. The other gaits are less satisfactory. When she trots, her front feet fly in all directions and her stiff little back hoofs stamp up and down like angry pistons. She can't canter with a rider. She frequently stumbles and falls over. Where most horses her age can easily manage trot poles, Rosie would have immense trouble simply stepping over a pole on the ground at a walk. When you ride her walk, it has that rare quality - a moment of suspension. Not the horse but the rider, as Rosie's locking stifle and clicky hips bounce you out of the saddle.

What should I do ? Should I admit my mistake and abandon her ? Should I grit my teeth and tough it out ? And if I moved her on, where would she go ? Well, any horse that can regularly put up with the standard treatment meted out to a saddlebred - or a Tennessee Walker - has to be at heart a pretty tolerant soul - not in fact an idiot or a lunatic. So Rosie Love-Bug stays.

At the risk of being boringly repetitive ... this is how hard my Rosie tries ....

 

[Katie_85]

I agree with Tootsie on this one. Specifics would be great. If that picture was supposed to be an example of good Saddleseat, then I would have to agree- it doesn't look right! But as CMR pointed out, that horse has likely been retrained to go huntseat. Saddleseat itself encompasses many different breeds. Some Morgans go Saddleseat (correct me if I'm wrong here Tootsie) Tennessee Walking Horses go Saddleseat, some Arabians, National Show Horses, and a few others. How natural or unnatural the training becomes is largely up to the handler. In the scheme of things Saddleseat is no "worse" or "better" than dressage or showjumping in competitive circles.

 

[Tootsie4U]

If that picture was supposed to be an example of good Saddleseat, then I would have to agree- it doesn't look right!

I would hope not They're in a hunt saddle No saddleseat there

 

[Tootsie4U]

(An FYI post for general knowledge)

This is saddle seat:

First is a Morgan (you can see what the actual saddleseat saddle looks like in the background of this pic), the second an Arab

 

[Katie_85]

I was looking for any pictures of Helen Crabtree (the late Saddleseat equitation guru) so folks could see what it's supposed to look like. I'll post a link as soon as I find one. I'd post the TWH's doing it, but that would do more harm than good here I'm afraid.

I would hope not They're in a hunt saddle No saddleseat there

Kind of like a Hunter princess causing her Saddleseat horse to have a very unfortunate crisis of identity!

EDIT- Good pictures- thanks for adding Tootsie!

 

[Skyhuntress]

Ironically, saddlebreds were first bred to be army mounts, and consequently go cross country (over jumps too) You'd never guess it by looking at one though, would you?

One does come to mind though. This was Sauce and Spirit (a pure saddlebred) with Joy Beaston at the CCI* events.

Saddlebreds are designed for elegance and smoothness. If you've ever had the chance to sit on one, aside from peruvians, they are pretty much as smooth as you can get. And because of their smoothness in gaits, they are also able to achieve two other gaits (the majority of saddlebreds are not naturally gaited, its trained).

Conformationally, they are bred to have slightly longer necks-but in the picture you posted, he has a turkey neck, which is due to improper muscling.

Would I want to own one? No. But for the sport that they are in, they truly excel at it.

 

[Natsuchan]

To be fair we have very few of the gaited breeds in Australia, and to our eyes they can look a bit strange. To me they always seem to look long everywhere, but I wonder how much of that is an optical illusion created by the long hooves and training?

There was a Saddlebred stallion at one of the big shows down here a few years ago (actually it's probably more like 10 now) a lovely big liver chestnut fellow. He was very nice indeed, but still looked a little strange next to the other stallions in the class.

We are so much more accustom to our Thoroughbred types, and our stock horses who are when you get down to it a blend of thoroughbred, Arab and quarter horse with a dash of draft and pony breeding. That anything else looks a bit out of the ordinary! Warmbloods aside riding horses here traditionally have tended towards smallish, lightly built blood horse types. So I see what Nayds is saying to our unaccustomed eyes they do look just a little strange. I mean this is more what we're use to!

http://www.horsequest.com/bredshow/astock/aus1.htm

I have to admit there is something about the way that horse is standing that makes me wonder just how comfortable he is, but he does look like a very sweet lad who tries very hard.

 

[Silvia]

Can somebody explain what the discipline involves? I have never seen the breed here in Austria and there are certainly no showing classes for it. That horse in the picture does not look too happy, though. Is it really required to pull horse's head in like that?

 

[Shadowlark]

A gaited breed when working "Collected" works with it's head up like that. All the North American gaited breeds trace back to the conquistadors and their Palfrey's who were bred for their quick smooth way of going. The Peruvian and the Paso Fino look the most like their ancestors in size type and build - the others have been bred into sleeker bigger animals.

The Peruvian: (cattle horse from Peru gaited to carry rider for full days work)

Icelandic (dont' kill me Frances.. but I don't know a whole lot about these super cool lil guys)

Tennesse Walking Horse (plantation horse, meant to cover huge distances to allow the rich to over sea their crops/workers in comfort and style)

Gaited Morgan (all round work horse, bred for his intellegence and strength gaited Morgans arn't all that common, but were and still are prized for their versatility)

LOL I could go on.. but it's late and I forget most of the others right now ANyway gaited horses are a very "uphill" ride usualy and all of them have a high head set when they are working "on the bit" It's true that parked our or standing for photos it can look quite extreme - but this head position maximizes the horses ability to gait.

Some of these breeds are accentuated through artifical means including weighted shoes as you will see on the walker. These artificial aids make the gait look fancier. The Peruvian and the Icelandic however cannot even be shown wearing shoes as the gait must be 100% natrual.

Some of the photos you will see are set a bizzare angles - they are all the rage to show off the huge front end action on the horse and to make them look as "big" in front as they can. Showing these horses is VERY extreme. and subject to HOT debate here in North America. Fortunately organizations for their ethical treatment and returning to the tradition of showing them aux natrual is gaining momentum and popularity. It's still a long road.. but they are way further ahead than many other equine causes.

A natrually gaited horse is a joy both to ride and be around. They are very different if you arn't used to seeing them, but are a facinating triumph of selective breeding.

 

[Silvia]

oh - so saddleseat horses can tölt? I didn't know that. Are they only judged for the quality of their gaits in a saddleseat class or is there something like dressage moves as well?

 

[Meovcorz]

To be fair we have very few of the gaited breeds in Australia, and to our eyes they can look a bit strange. To me they always seem to look long everywhere, but I wonder how much of that is an optical illusion created by the long hooves and training?

There was a Saddlebred stallion at one of the big shows down here a few years ago (actually it's probably more like 10 now) a lovely big liver chestnut fellow. He was very nice indeed, but still looked a little strange next to the other stallions in the class.

We are so much more accustom to our Thoroughbred types, and our stock horses who are when you get down to it a blend of thoroughbred, Arab and quarter horse with a dash of draft and pony breeding. That anything else looks a bit out of the ordinary! Warmbloods aside riding horses here traditionally have tended towards smallish, lightly built blood horse types. So I see what Nayds is saying to our unaccustomed eyes they do look just a little strange. I mean this is more what we're use to!

http://www.horsequest.com/bredshow/astock/aus1.htm

I have to admit there is something about the way that horse is standing that makes me wonder just how comfortable he is, but he does look like a very sweet lad who tries very hard.

I sure do like how you said that Natsuchan, I couldn't have said it better. I personally, find these horse's different to look at, actually, even these QH which are becoming SO popular over here, look weird to me with there REALLY rounded hindquarters. Like Natsuchan said we are use to Australian Stock horse's, they are not really stocky though. They were originally bred for being on the go for months at a time droving cattle from one place to another, and live on dry to dead grass, and not much water. The favourite breed these days over here seems to be, Aussie Stock horses crossed with Quarter Horses. They are good I have to admit, especially that I own one.

 

[parsharainbow]

I don't know maybe it's just me but I don't think this looks right...

It's an American Saddlebred.

Its not a great pic but I rather like the breed myself

Weren't they originally carriage horses way back

 

[Nayds]

I don't want this to end up as one huge arguement.

But this is what I was getting at.

http://www.vichorse.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=20319&start=0&S=cc5ecc705f77defbace771ae2be7521c

I too must thank Natsuchan her point is also a very valid one!

 

[Shadowlark]

oh - so saddleseat horses can tölt? I didn't know that. Are they only judged for the quality of their gaits in a saddleseat class or is there something like dressage moves as well?

They Rack (I am pretty sure) which isn't as comfortable as the Tolt or Paso Lliano of the two more naturaly gaited breeds but is still much smoother than the average trot.

As to Saddlebreds being carriage horses - as the name implies they were actually quite the oposite. However that doesn't mean they weren't used for carriage work.

 

[Afellpony]

All that kind of thing is illegal here in the UK now. Has been for around 100 years.​

 

[parsharainbow]

Mr Ed was a saddlebred (for those like me old enough to remember him )