The Mare Who No-One Wanted.......

I was vaguely thinking of sending Amber away for training, just to see how she is the first few times hacking/jumping etc. She is a big, powerful and largely unknown horse! So I have been doing some asking around and has been very frustrating. I had already got her on the waiting list for a ‘name’ until someone told me of their friend’s horrific experience with that trainer. The problems were too specific to be excusable: horse had rain scald, had lost weight, as well as now being terrified of ropes and head shy etc. That reminded me of Karin US who had an awful experience sending Minnie away to a well known trainer. So I decided to stick local and go with recommendations from friends and trainers I know. Well one trainer recommended Mr X….. said he had done a fantastic job on so and so’s pony etc. So I was keen on him till my YO said he trained them very harshly. Basically got on and thrashed them till they stopped bucking! So that was a non starter. She recommended someone else who has started several of my friends ponies and those ponies are all lovely. YO said he was ‘much gentler’ and more patient. So I then approached one of the owners and she raved about him: he was patient, effective, got amazing results. It all sounded great till she added “she started bucking so he tied tyres to her and made her drag them round for 3 hours in baking hot sun. She has never bucked again!”

So by ‘patient’ he meant would wait for hours while basically abusing a horse, not patient WITH the horse.

It struck me how ludicrous these training ‘methods’ are. How can ANY horse link bucking under saddle with then being dismounted, tied to heavy objects and driven round. How can she possibly have known this was a punishment for the bucking and she’d better not buck again. As far as I can work out, whether you tie a dummy to a horse and let it buck till it stops, or get on and whip the horse till it stops or tie tyres to it and let it buck till it stops the only thing that is happening is that the horse bucks through fear and over time comes to realise that it isn’t dying after all and stops bucking. Which probably actually takes longer when you add in punishment (whipping, dragging tyres) because it increases the fear response. These people are professionals but their methods are totally non-sensical as far as I can tell.

I'd far prefer to just do things more slowly so I don't trigger much of a fear response in the first place and each new step feels ok to the horse. So I have given up looking for a trainer, and plan to do it all myself. May take longer but I just no longer trust anyone else tbh. Though I am still nervous about it all.........

Annyone else sent their horse off? How did it go?
 
I took the same option as you @KP nut as one of the reasons I wanted a young horse was to know 100% that it hadn't been traumatised by anyone. I train mine myself, with the great aid of my RI in lessons. It has taken longer but if I was in a rush I would have bought an older trained horse to start with. Its been a long journey, sometimes arduous sometimes pure joy, but definitely a fulfilling one for me.
 
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I'm confused?? Doesn't take much to be fair!
I thought she was already ridden? Or are you seeing things missing in her education? I would think you would have enough knowledge to bring her on yourself. :)
 
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@Kite_Rider she was bought from the field and I have no idea what she has done previously. I wondered about someone else bringing her back into work for me, but in the end just did that bit myself and she is obviously very, very green. Wobbly, unbalanced, can't steer! That on it's own is fine, but our second time jumping she threw me off fairly spectacularly! A combination of losing her balance and over excitement I think. So I am revisiting the idea of someone else just getting her going in w/t/c/j in the arena and out hacking and on roads. Not sure I fancy being the first to do all that. But I am carrying on for now.
 
Reading your previous posts on her progress and attitude under saddle I would not for one moment consider sending her away. Why would you? - she sounds a nice steady sort who is probably very green and for whatever reason has been let off for a good while. And if she is very green as you describe her, I wouldn't even entertain jumping so much as a stick on her until you have basic schooling established, if this is a gap in her education?

Asking a young green and uneducated horse to jump a drain in Ireland, following on the tail of another hunting horse among a herd of them is nothing - the filly would just follow her instinct and the herd and jump it as best she can with Farmer Begorra hanging on for dear life. Farmer Begorra doesn't care a damn about style and collection and take off point or what he is asking a young and experienced horse to cope with - he just wants to arrive at the other side of the obstacle in one piece and still on board and to follow the hounds.;)

Asking her to do a nice little jump in a ménage probably left her extremely worried, bewildered and probably not a clue what you were asking her to do. Please don't let that very minor blip persuade you to send her off to other people to deal with. It sounds like she is very settled with you and on the livery yard, take advantage of that huge plus and take time and patience to see her through to the horse you hope she will become. :)
 
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I have to say I too am a little confused you wanted to take her slow but you are jumping her already when you have already stated she is green and wobbly. Why would you even go over a cross pole until the flat work was to a better standard.

As for sending away I have a friendly that sent hers off and they were amazing the pony looked the best I had ever seen it look.
 
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I had a good experience sending mine off. Green as grass and kept running off (at a trot!) I think while it was too much for me, it was fairly straight forward for the trainers to sort so I saw no bad impact of it all.

If I could do it again though, I'd just get an experienced riding instructor to help and guide me to do it myself. I think sending them away is only the very beginning of a long journey to provide the very basics. Everything else needs to be done by us owners taking our time and building on the first teachings. It's no quick fix that folk tend to think it will be.
 
I was having a lesson and RI put out some trotting poles which she didn't bat an eyelid at so then we tried tiny cross poles. But she didn't jump them tiny! I don't see any issue with introducing different things early on. I am taking each bit slow - lots of work in walk. Lots of transitions. Not cantering in the arena yet as she's not balanced enough but have cantered in open space and popped logs. Cross poles were just something else for her to look at to get her paying attention to her feet and for exposure.
 
@Cortrasna this is EXACTLY what happened to me with the irish horse i bought but at the time i stupidly didnt realise it. I was being advised to crack on and jump him and we landed in a massive heap with me in hospital. It took me a while before i understood why i was able to jump this horse over xc fences in a straight line when i was over in ireland but not over a simple upright in the arena at home.
 
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everyone has a different approach but you’re doing a great job so dont let a little blip put you off. i backed brook and then sent her to a yard for 6 weeks to be brought on a bit. she came back even more reactive than when she left because the change unsettled her. its such a hard one though as at the time i was worried about what she might do and i didnt want to be the one onboard to find out.
 
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I suppose the trouble is I lack confidence in my own judgement. I have jumped her twice - both times at clinics/lessons that the twins were booked on to which Oscar had to miss. So I really just took Amber along for the ride after discussing it with the clinic trainers. It was very much a case of just getting her out in the trailer to new places and see how she coped. In the case of the XC clinic at Somerford she was amazing. But at the SJ lesson at Beaver Hall she was much more excitable and I think we pushed it too far. But it was just a blip, really. My RI was fairly chilled out about it - said it was just one of those things and not to worry about it. But then I worry I am going to ruin her so decide to send her away then hear horror stories about what actually goes on behind closed doors! I think I worry too much! I will just carry on as I am taking advice from people who actually know me and her and see how we get on....
 
if it was me i think instead of sending her away or taking her to any clinics for now I would choose 1 reliable RI, someone obviously experienced in bringing on and producing horses (perhaps someone you were considering sending to that also teaches?). Id have this person work with you every week for the forseeable... I feel at the stage you are at consistency is key all round. As you say , you need someone who knows you and her well. It would mean this RI could also pop on now and again if needs be or school her for you. I wouldnt be taking her about to too many places for another few months until you’ve established more foundations with her.
 
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My old yard was a riding school and lessons were on at random times throughout the week. So you just had to ride whenever you managed to get arena time and would almost never have the arena to yourself as all the liveries were in that situation. No option to book the arena. The YO did private lessons but we approach things very, very differently so that was not going to work. So getting out and about really was the only way for me to get guidance/instruction I trust! The girls are at pony club and we are all in a BRC so I have got to know various trainers through those clubs and have come to know which ones are a good fit for us.

The new yard has better facilities and the arena is free much more. So maybe I need to see if there are local freelance RIs that would come out as that would be possible now.
 
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If it were me, I would find someone (RI) who you trust, respect and like their methods of training, who understands your situation and horse, who really gets what you want out of lessons, for both you and your horse, and work with that one person, excluding all others from opinions, riding your horse and generally having their two pence worth.

I would not involve anyone else but that person and that person only. Every rider / instructor has an opinion and theirs, of course, is the only right one. You and your horse need continuity in training. One trainer teaching you both all you need to go forward with a successful riding partnership.
 
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I wouldn't send her away, it doesn't take much to ruin a horse and I think you have to be 100% confident in the person you're sending her too and how they will deal with problems etc.

I echo what others have said get yourself a good RI, someone who you trust and value the opinion of and have weekly, twice weekly lessons. Your new yard sounds like it's got good facilities so you'll be able to ride her a lot more.
 
Lissie said:
it doesn't take much to ruin a horse .
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Well that's what I am worried about!! But I don't think I could bring myself to send her away anyway. I enjoy training and I think you just get a much better partnership with a horse longer term, if you work through everything together. I'll try and find an RI locally. The new YO teaches so that might work out perfectly if we gel!
 
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KP nut said:
Well that's what I am worried about!! But I don't think I could bring myself to send her away anyway. I enjoy training and I think you just get a much better partnership with a horse longer term, if you work through everything together. I'll try and find an RI locally. The new YO teaches so that might work out perfectly if we gel!
Click to expand...

I think if you send her away she'll of been to quite a few places before she's got settled any where too. Yes I agree I think you'll have a better partnership you'll also know her a lot better and her little ways, they all have them. Getting the right RI is hard but once you find the right one it's worth it. I've had lots of lessons with different instructors and never really felt like they understood the horse until I went to a clinic with someone new and had the best lesson everything she said about him was how he felt to me. Since them I have weekly lessons and not only do I feel like I'm improving I really enjoy it.
 
Why are you attempting to jump a horse that in your own admission cannot steer and is wobbly? You said you were taking things slowly yet you are jumping her not long after being chucked In a field for weeks she because of strangles?

I can't keep up with the twists and turns and Back tracking you seem to do in regards to training yours horses KPnut. Seems like you always want to be running before you can walk. :rolleyes:

I have been backing and bringing on a horse for 18months now and he's only just at the stage of popping small fences. He is doing pole work, hacking and schooling as well as ground work and he's coming on fab, he's bold and intelligent and a lovely soft ride. Slow down and stop wanting everything yesterday.
 
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I would get someone in to ride her too. I can understand how your confidence has been knocked if you took a big tumble the second time you jumped her - mine would be on the floor too. But as others have said, if she's an Irish horse she's probably jumped solid fences in straight lines but hasn't a clue what to do with a showjumping uprights, and this is something you'll have to introduce her to slowly. There's no rush anyway - my lovely Roxy was over-faced by doing big showjumping competitions as a youngster which meant she was fine jumping at home, but in a big show environment, would freak out and not want to jump at all. The previous owner had exactly the same issues with her jumping as I did and she said that's what had happened. (She was actually fine cross country as she'd never done any before I got her, so wasn't freaked out by it and we learnt together!) I don't know much about bringing on event horses but they don't tend to be particularly young when they compete at top levels, so I guess it's a slow and steady process.
 
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