Stirrup bars too far forward?

HaloHoney

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Apr 30, 2017
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well I’ve just had a massive penny drop moment.

https://schleese.com/2016/06/14/saddle-fit-leg-length-influences-position/

“When you are sitting in your saddle you should never feel uncomfortable or out of balance because you are fighting the position the saddle puts you in. When you get in a saddle and find that your lower leg is swinging, or you bump into the pommel when rising or your knee comes over the front of the flap, you may want to measure your upper and lower leg and find out if the stirrup bar is is placed correctly for you. There are many other parts of the saddle which affect fit to you but the stirrup bar is important and should be measured for optimum positioning.”

“Fighting the position the saddle puts you in”. Swinging lower leg, bumping into pommel, knee over front of flap... I am more stable without stirrups at all, and I strained my hip flexor whilst riding a couple of weeks ago. From photos and video it looks like I have an enforced chair seat, and I’m tall.

Can you get stirrup bars set further back? Or is it new saddle time? :eek:
 
You can yes if that's actually the problem.

I am treeless and I can move my stirrup plate, knee rolls and change the seat. I had to do that last year and went up from 16" to a 17". More room. :D
 
I don't like a forward/normal positioned stirrup bar, I just can't get in balance, my saddle was apparently known for and less of a hit because lots of people didn't like the position of the stirrup bar as its too far back for many. I'm short and long bodied proportionate to my legs, I find a more forward stirrup leaves me fighting to get my leg under me.

I don't think adjusting the stirrup bar position is something commonly done, the saddle is designed for balance with it where it is and moving it would require a complete strip down of the saddle, probably best to just look for one that suits you.
 
I suspect it would be a mammoth job if it could be done. Try putting just your toe in the stirrup rather than the ball of your foot (I've not looked at pictures of your position so apologies if you already do this) as this will automatically put your leg further back. And be aware that the saddle isn't the only reason for some of these problems, for example if your stirrup is too long then your leg will swing & that swinging leg will make you more likely to bump the pommel as it makes you unbalanced & out of time.
 
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I don't like a forward/normal positioned stirrup bar, I just can't get in balance, my saddle was apparently known for and less of a hit because lots of people didn't like the position of the stirrup bar as its too far back for many. I'm short and long bodied proportionate to my legs, I find a more forward stirrup leaves me fighting to get my leg under me.

I don't think adjusting the stirrup bar position is something commonly done, the saddle is designed for balance with it where it is and moving it would require a complete strip down of the saddle, probably best to just look for one that suits you.

Interesting you say this Jessey, I always fought to get my leg under and in balance in almost every saddle I've ever sat in, like you I have a long body compared to my legs, lots don't like my saddle either for the exact same reason, stirrup bars too far back for them. Never thought about it being related to my body/leg length.
 
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Interesting you say this Jessey, I always fought to get my leg under and in balance in almost every saddle I've ever sat in, like you I have a long body compared to my legs, lots don't like my saddle either for the exact same reason, stirrup bars too far back for them. Never thought about it being related to my body/leg length.
I hadn't particularly but it makes sense that your center of balance would be different if you are less proportional :)
 
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I hadn't particularly but it makes sense that your center of balance would be different if you are less proportional :)
Weirdly I've just been and measured my legs after reading the article that @HaloHoney posted, I'm 5ft 6 and my legs are exactly the same measurement from hip to knee and knee to floor, (although way shorter than the 5'5 lady on that article) so it can only be the disproportion from body length to leg length. For years I thought I was rubbish rider with a rubbish position until my classical dressage trained RI let me ride her horse in her saddle with set back stirrup bars, then it all fell into place :) Since I've had my treeless saddles with either set back bars or adjustable bar position I've never looked back.
 
I'm glad no one looked in my office just then :p but I'm 5'4" and my hip-knee is 18" and knee to heel is 19" or there abouts, my inseam is 29", so I looked online and 45-48% leg length/height is considered a normal ratio and I fall at 45.31, so although I think I have short legs and a longer body, it's not extreme just at the edge of the normal range.
 
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I really do think the saddle set up and stir bar are the main issues for causing a bad position in the saddle. I was in the lucky position when buying all mine saddles that I didn't give myself a price range and just went with what was right for the pony then was it right for me. My saddler then let me try them all and take my time then gave me a two week trawl. I rejected a band new jump saddle after just over a week as i just felt wrong in it. I then got a second hand one that I loved.

I have a range of saddles with different prices. My favourite is my Monarch that I hack in it is super comfy and was only £500 new 6 years ago. But for giving me the best position it has to be my Fairfax dressage as I gave AS and one side is not as strong and can twist the blocks stop that happening at first I felt the pressure in my upper thigh where the block was but now my body does not twist I doesn't happen any more so the saddle has effected the way I ride in a good way whereas I image a bad saddle will effect the position of the rider over time as they learn to adjust to it whether that be good or bad
 
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This has all been hugely interesting. Thanks so much for your thoughts.

My stirrups are perfect- it was commented on by two instructors recently. Any shorter and I have an enforced chair position.

Unfortunately when I bought this saddle I had about 30 minutes to try it, and I wasn’t as good a rider as I am now, so I had no idea whether it was a saddle causing an issue or whether it was my poor position/riding. The saddle STILL moves despite gullet bar changes, padding, half pads, MORE padding...

Ugh. I definitely want a second opinion for my next saddle. He seems to work ok in it, we can achieve roundness a lot easier, but everything else points towards me needing a saddle with the stirrup bars set back.

If I have my stirrups the correct length I have swinging legs. If I shorten them at all I have an enforced chair. Saddle is a Thorowgood T8 anatomical GP saddle, 17.5”. It’s set up on the points and balance strap. His previous owners had him in a Fairfax.

Here’s me with my stirrups 2 holes shorter than I normally ride.

I’m off to measure my legs...
 

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I suspect it would be a mammoth job if it could be done. Try putting just your toe in the stirrup rather than the ball of your foot (I've not looked at pictures of your position so apologies if you already do this) as this will automatically put your leg further back. And be aware that the saddle isn't the only reason for some of these problems, for example if your stirrup is too long then your leg will swing & that swinging leg will make you more likely to bump the pommel as it makes you unbalanced & out of time.

I have started trying riding like this, it’s fine in sitting trot but in rising trot I lose my stirrup... because my leg is swinging. I’ve changed stirrups to massively grippy ones (think cheese grater) and still I lose my stirrups.

The more I think about it, the more I’m reasonably put out actually because I was told by the saddle fitter (who is also one of the riding instructors at my yard) that some of the issues I have with the saddle moving is “because of the way you ride him”.

Of course I’m going to struggle if the bleeping saddle isn’t right for me! Argh.
 
Leg measurements- 56cm thigh, 49cm lower leg. 7cm difference. Interesting.
You know I just had my tape measure out and I tried it twice because I thought I was wrong. 6cm difference.
I have a dressage saddle currently and my position is fine having popped up a hole.
My gp will come along and screw that up over the summer months!
Even my RI says it actually looks like you can ride in the current one and my position goes to pot when I swap. I swap though because her build dictates it and I can't do fast work in dressage one.
 
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Try putting just your toe in the stirrup rather than the ball of your foot (I've not looked at pictures of your position so apologies if you already do this) as this will automatically put your leg further back.

Just looked at the video I took of us schooling yesterday- I have literally got just my toes in the stirrup- I just screen grabbed it. And I’m still sitting like I’m in a chair...



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You might find you would get along better with wh / dressage saddle for flatwork and hacking.

Though to me it's really about feel. Some riders go searching high and low for this and can't find it. :)
If you feel insecure, are fighting the saddle, or not comfortable, your body is telling you something isn't right. It's great to back that up with a visual but you probably have the start of that sometimes illusive feel.
 
in this case i dont think its the stirrup bars , if you want a classical position you’d be better with a dressage saddle

a saddler once said i could put a little wedge of cardboard on the stirrup bars so when you put the leathers on, they sit further back.. didn’t make any difference but you could try it
 
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Lovely horse! :)

I watched your dressage vids as well and I have to say I just dont think your saddle is balanced (not going to go so far to say it doesnt fit, but it doesnt look great!) which is probably why rising trot is so much harder. In your vids you can see the back of the saddle rising up with you, there is no way you can stay in balance when it is chasing you up. You wont be able to get 'classical' position in a GP ever, but I think there are options to make it a lot easier to ride in one. :)
 
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Looking at the flatwork photo it seems to me as though you're pushing the stirrups forward - if that's the case then having the stirrup bar further back won't make a difference because you'll still move them. See how they don't look to be hanging vertically? If they were they'd have to be coming from under the pommel. Out of interest were you taught to push your heel down? That also often has the effect of accidentally pushing the leg forward, which then becomes a habit. Try letting you leg hang with the stirrup vertical & then think of lifting your toe instead of dropping your heel, and before you put your feet in the stirrups position yourself in the middle of the seat & see where that puts your legs & then try to keep that when you take back your stirrups.

I'm not convinced that saddle is a great fit for you, it looks too small to me in the photos, but that might not be the case if you're sat differently.
 
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Try letting you leg hang with the stirrup vertical & then think of lifting your toe instead of dropping your heel, and before you put your feet in the stirrups position yourself in the middle of the seat & see where that puts your legs & then try to keep that when you take back your stirrups.

If I position my legs correctly without my feet in the stirrups, then I can’t actually touch the stirrups at all from where they hang naturally and where my legs want to be...

I watched your dressage vids as well and I have to say I just dont think your saddle is balanced (not going to go so far to say it doesnt fit, but it doesnt look great!) which is probably why rising trot is so much harder.
Cheers. The saddle fitter said that was mainly due to the way I ride him. Which made me want to go and bang my head against something hard. I thought if a saddle fitted well, that it would be very hard to move...

He has a large amount of padding in the front of the sheepskin half pad which sits under his saddle because he hollows behind his shoulder. Saddle flapped around tremendously until it was girthed on points and balance strap (1 & 4).

Still going on 24th? We’re entered for BF - in restricted section...
 
You can get a perfectly decent leg position in a GP saddle - I did SJ up to 1.10m in this saddle (the pic is my jumping length lol!) plus all of my flatwork and hacking. Some GP saddles are a lot more forward-cut than others, you do need to try a few different styles to find the one that suits you.

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