Racing

I think the problem with wastage lies at the humans door, in all industries.
If you look back as to why the competitive horse sport started in the very beginning, it was initially to save wastage- find the horse something to do.

My limited knowledge of racing is you would be breeding quality over quantity in the first place. Who is going to breed something of inferior quality? Who will want to buy into that? These animals, beautiful as they are, are not cheap to keep even shared. So you would breed the pedigree and buy into one with four legs and a brain that runs forwards!

As for solving wastage. Not all tbs bred to race, race. You will get a % that don't make the grade, are not interested, go paddock lame or suffer an injury at source as you say.
It's sad to say that if a racer doesn't show promise by the time it's three- for that trainer, it's likely too expensive to keep on. A high proportion of tbs don't make their 5th birthday. If they goes to sales, it's someone's cast off, but that's better than a table in France.

Different countries have different surfaces and I believe the AW tracks would do more damage in the longer term, however some are turf summer runners and some go better in winter AW.

Where they go relies on someone knowledgeable to reschool and another equally knowledgeable to purchase.
Therein lies your problem though, there isn't enough experienced people to offer homes- these are not suitable for a gentle hack round the block on a Sunday afternoon, they need to be doing something.
 
On that last bit @newforest i don't think that's always true, on the open market Ex-racers are often advertised around here for £1500-2000 for a 3 year old just out of racing, which is very strong money for a horse that probably needs 6-12 months out and then completely reschooling. It's bred by xxx and run 3 races doesn't mean it's worth that money to me, it's being sold because it failed at its job and is a huge project (and risk) for someone to take on.
 
Am I misunderstanding?
I said there aren't enough experienced people to reschool, are you saying there are but they are too expensive and it's too big a risk in the beginning?

To me its a 'safety net' price. Anyone buying a young horse still needs to put in a good few years of time and patient education. You have the rest of its life ahead you, there isn't a rush.
They might have come out because they are not interested in taking the lead, running fast enough, but they haven't failed as a horse for other sports.
I hope the price stops idiots buying.
I would rather see a decent price tag that makes people think about what they are buying, than just selling them off to anyone for £500. That's the heartbreaking adverts I see around here. Too much for novice owner sold from field.
 
@Orenoko Just adding that one horse lost its life during the three day festival. Lilbitluso.
The main race on the Saturday had them dropping like flies but thankfully none put down at this stage.
What we don't hear about is whether or not those falls do end up stopping their running career.
Horses like their riders lose confidence.
Having had a hurdler for one season, I quickly got out of jumpers. It's heart stopping.
 
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You do see ex racers up for that price but not many are actually sold or if they are it is to people that don’t know Tbs and end up selling them on at next to nothing.

A lot of people come to me for tb advise and when they say they are seeing one for that type if money my first question is what have they done? If nothing as in but restart not been to a show etc I tell them the walk away as you wouldn’t pay that much for any other horse that had done nothing. But they think it’s a good deal because they get at a pier tb but have no idea how to deal with it.

Don’t get me wrong some are super really super but I am on a ex racers fb group and there are a lot more posts that refer to does you ex racer explode how do you deal with it, how did I keep weight on with out creating a monster. Etc
 
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I had a quick Google to see what's currently for sale.

£900 just bought, can't afford three.
£900 overpowered by size and energy
£500 change of circumstances.

But the most concerning one was the bombproof ideal family horse, mother/ daughter share. Old back injury so not been schooled just hacked.
They had apparently just been through the village and it didn't bother about a lorry. That's NOT the definition of bombproof to me.
 
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@Orenoko Just adding that one horse lost its life during the three day festival. Lilbitluso.
The main race on the Saturday had them dropping like flies but thankfully none put down at this stage.
What we don't hear about is whether or not those falls do end up stopping their running career.
Horses like their riders lose confidence.
Having had a hurdler for one season, I quickly got out of jumpers. It's heart stopping.

Yes I read about that one on Friday evening. I just read an article about the 'success' of the main race, the success being that nobody died... I find it strange that that's how one quantifies success, it just seems so barbaric in this day and age somehow. Or maybe just an odd use of language. o_O

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/apr/15/grand-national-aintree-tv-figures
 
What they mean is that the improvements they are doing/ have done is working in terms of safety.
Nobody wants a horse or rider to die for the sake of a competiton. Before these changes they were. So success is because nobody did in that race, though they did in the festival itself.
Just look at what Bechers used to look like.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Becher's_Brook


82 horses have died since the start of the race in 1839.
23 horses have died in just 25 years doing the USA suicide race- contains upsetting scenes I wouldn't 'you tube' it unless you want a comparison on safety.
 
What they mean is that the improvements they are doing/ have done is working in terms of safety.
Nobody wants a horse or rider to die for the sake of a competiton. Before these changes they were. So success is because nobody did in that race, though they did in the festival itself.
Just look at what Bechers used to look like.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Becher's_Brook


82 horses have died since the start of the race in 1839.
23 horses have died in just 25 years doing the USA suicide race- contains upsetting scenes I wouldn't 'you tube' it unless you want a comparison on safety.

I agree it's safer than it used to be by a LONG way, but playing devil's advocate here, I think this when this race was conceived they knew horses would die and it wasn't an issue because it was all about entertaining people. In some ways this race was conceived to set horses up to fail. I still think there's an element of that which remains today, while it's safer they can't make it too 'tame' because it takes the spectacle out of it. Like others have said of course there will always be risk and I'm not disagreeing at all, you can't eliminate risk, but the way this race is covered in the media it's always spectacle and entertainment first, horse welfare second. I've rambled a bit there, apologies!! :p I probably shouldn't single out this race as I guess some show jumping and eventing courses may be similar.

I think I've seen clips of the suicide race you refer to, I suppose that's a perfect example of what I was just referring to, spectacle first welfare second. That race is just insane.
 
I think the problem with wastage lies at the humans door, in all industries.
If you look back as to why the competitive horse sport started in the very beginning, it was initially to save wastage- find the horse something to do.

My limited knowledge of racing is you would be breeding quality over quantity in the first place. Who is going to breed something of inferior quality? Who will want to buy into that? These animals, beautiful as they are, are not cheap to keep even shared. So you would breed the pedigree and buy into one with four legs and a brain that runs forwards!

As for solving wastage. Not all tbs bred to race, race. You will get a % that don't make the grade, are not interested, go paddock lame or suffer an injury at source as you say.
It's sad to say that if a racer doesn't show promise by the time it's three- for that trainer, it's likely too expensive to keep on. A high proportion of tbs don't make their 5th birthday. If they goes to sales, it's someone's cast off, but that's better than a table in France.

Different countries have different surfaces and I believe the AW tracks would do more damage in the longer term, however some are turf summer runners and some go better in winter AW.

Where they go relies on someone knowledgeable to reschool and another equally knowledgeable to purchase.
Therein lies your problem though, there isn't enough experienced people to offer homes- these are not suitable for a gentle hack round the block on a Sunday afternoon, they need to be doing something.

Hi there

Talking about breeding quality over quantity - check out something called 'pin-hooking' - unfortunately foals are bred all the time specifically for this practice, and the breeders know they will never make the racecourse. So this is a massive problem in racing.

With over 14,000 foals bred every year, it is something that desperately needs looking at. I see it all the time in my work. Less breeding means less wastage - it is a matter of economics way before we get to the racecourse.

Also there are many foals bred for flat that are not raced, but in their training the trainer realises that they would do a better job at NH, so these are kept as storestock until they are 5 and then brought back into work. It is very cheap to stick a load of yearlings in a field and winter them out for a few years - it is a very common practice - as it is in dressage foals on the continent.

I hate to keep disagreeing but plenty of racehorses that are retrained are actually more than suitable to be a sunday afternoon hack - ask any of the racehorse charities. The one I work with always has a few to go out as hacks - it depends entirely what you do with them :)
 
Agreed its about entertaining. You wouldn't get bets if it wasn't. I want to see all of them get round, I don't want fallers, you don't back it to fall you back to win.

Back in 1839 safety of the rider or horse might not have been thought of. It was just a race they did and could avoid jumps if they went round the lanes.
Thinking about that without the hat or bp of today as well! Shocking. The photographs in the old book I had showed the trainer taking horses to clear 4ft picket fences. That was I think the 1920's general horse riding lessons.

As for pin hooking. Yes I know about this. Not sure where the term comes from do you?
It's possible that the lease might go onto to do nh next year, that's when I pull out. That's not what I got into him for.
 
Me too...I used to be terrified watching the horses I looked after. Mind you, interestingly when I rode out (many years ago!) we had no bp and turned our baseball caps round to go up the gallops!

Its a really difficult decision - I love racing but hate the welfare issues surrounding it. I'm on my third ex-racehorse now, so I feel by having them I do a little bit of good. Plus they have all been ones sold from owners who couldn't handle them...

Pin hooking - I had a look on Google - its something to do with tobacco buying!
 
Your point about them being quiet is true. With the right retraining. That's the problem. I have ridden the really half asleep ex racers that simply didn't want to go.

Ps feel free to disagree with anything I say that's the point of a discussion. :)
 
My first one I actually never re-trained but rode around in a race ex saddle :eek: Locally we were known as the mad woman with the skinny chestnut..! But I did know what I was doing, which is always a bonus!
 
I think with racing what you don't see you don't think about.

Not sure if this video will just play. Click on the video button to the right to show the race 23 March. Skip to five minutes.
It's a race where a horse makes a mistake but both horse and riders are straight up.

If you've bet you either pick up your winnings or rip up the paper and forget about it.
Have a watch.

http://www.attheraces.com/form/horse/Bridane-Rebel/IRE/2921488

Then watch it again. And this time pay attention to the horse who comes 4th. You can just about see what you didn't see the second time.
 
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