Racing

I saved replying to this thread as I figured it needed a longer reply than I fancied typing on my phone so waited until I was at work today but you all beat me to it, I agree that statistically if you looked at each discipline you'd find similar fatality and injury rates, they just aren't so public or readily viewed and are often less dramatic so get less attention. I am a bit on the fence about backing 2 year olds, I have had a heavy American influence in the last 20 years and that is the norm there for all horses, so I am not completely adverse to young backing BUT I do not agree with 2 year olds being in heavy training for any discipline, their bodies aren't ready for that kind of work.
 
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Over here lots of people go for x racers.
There were several tracks around so they were plentiful and very affordable.

I'm. It sure how that's changed now with most of the local tracks having closed
Now in the last few years.

I have mixed feeling in racing but like some have said its televised so horrific mishaps are more in your face whereas you might need to be more I inner circle to know about other horsey venue.

I watch the big races on tv but mostly to watch the pony horses since sonny was
A pony horse and one big track had a pony
Horse they was amazing it was Bridleless
With a neck rope .

It's amazing that was never called to attention of viewers it was fabulous to see.

I'm sure there are good and bad trainers.

I remember few years ago liking the trainer of Eight Bells he was not a famous bob Baffert etc etc

Can't remember his name but he even rode her for training.

It was horrific she came in second to Big
Brown in the Kentucky derby and then broke both ankles just past the finish line.

Not knowing anything about the trainer past his interview. Prior days and after
The horrible incident.

He did not seen LIKE the kind of guy to endanger a horse.

Something I kind of don't get is the big TRAINER Bob Bafferts with multiple of his horses they are training but by different owners in the same races.

Not knowing the ins and outs of racing.

He can't be telling ALL those owners you have a winner in this race.
 
Hmmm.
I am also someone who is in 2 minds about racing, more towards racing. I feel that 2/3 years of age is too young to race, but it happens. Yet they are given 5 star treatment all the way through their racing life. I do like to go racing but then i do worry how many will have problems in later life. But as others have said in SJ/Polo/ Dressage etc a lot of horses don't make it and because racing is in the public eye more its seen more. I know the grooms who look after there horses day in day out. Get very upset if one doesn't return home, its stable already made up.. The training of the horses and the races having been made much safer aswell.

Saying that. I am a owner of a very very special ex racer, as @Jessey knows!! Considering racing gets a 'bad' name he was actually started late, I say late at 3. He was hacked for the first year while he matured. He went out in the field with his mates for an hour which he loved. Racing wasn't his thing and he was sold at 5. Though he had been passed around a lot, sadly, before coming to myself. We haven't done as much as i had planed! However he is such a lovely genuine boy who just wants to please and anyone can lead him/ sit on him. One of the things i am most pleased with really is more, after ex racer leave racing they can end up in bad homes... I am just very pleased my boy is in a good home :D even if he is a walking vets bill!

Glad you've ended up with such a lovely horse, especially one that got passed around a lot. That's a more general problem that horses face, so I do wonder whether there is any onus on a trainer/owner to try and find a good home for any horse that doesn't make it/has to retire? Of course there are limitations to how much they could do but I wonder if there are standards they try to adhere to when they rehome?

@Mary Poppins such a good point about looking at livery yards, there are a few at my share's yard who seem to be perpetually lame, one of whom was quite a high level jumper at one point. Like you say these animals are so forgiving, I guess that's part of the reason why we love them so much!
I saved replying to this thread as I figured it needed a longer reply than I fancied typing on my phone so waited until I was at work today but you all beat me to it, I agree that statistically if you looked at each discipline you'd find similar fatality and injury rates, they just aren't so public or readily viewed and are often less dramatic so get less attention. I am a bit on the fence about backing 2 year olds, I have had a heavy American influence in the last 20 years and that is the norm there for all horses, so I am not completely adverse to young backing BUT I do not agree with 2 year olds being in heavy training for any discipline, their bodies aren't ready for that kind of work.

Thanks @Jessey, I'd be interested to know more about the reasons why people are training so young. There must be some kind of payoff and the returns must outweigh the risk in terms of injury (I'm guessing).

@horseandgoatmom it's stories like that that really tug at my heart strings I have to say, even though it's a complete accident I can't help but feel bad, even though that horse probably had a great life up until that sad end. But again, I guess it's because as we've all said here, it's in your face and on the TV so reaches a wider audience whereas a similar injury in a different discipline would receive no media attention. Doesn't mean it's not happening. I think that's one of the main things I'll take from this thread, it's definitely enabled me to look at the bigger picture.
 
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Thanks @Jessey, I'd be interested to know more about the reasons why people are training so young. There must be some kind of payoff and the returns must outweigh the risk in terms of injury (I'm guessing).
I can't speak for a nation, but those I have spoken to say they don't see an increased occurance of injury, the horses are backed at 2 and that's the way it is. There is also the 'they are quick to mature' argument (which is scientifically inaccurate in terms of their skeletal system) but because they look fully developed they are considered mature. There is also, 'because we have always done it that way', which I think stemmed from the pioneer days, when people simply couldn't afford to raise a horse for 4/5 years before it started earning its keep.

I can speak to my own actions, Jess was backed just before she turned 3, in her 3yo summer she was lightly hacked, then just before she turned 4yo she went back for 1 months more intensive training and was schooling and competing regularly as a 4yo.

Frankly she was a demon horse as a 2yo, she had kicked me putting me on the floor several times, double barreling (repeatedly) me against fences/gates on more than one occasion, boxed me in the face (front foot square between the eyes) and was generally impossible to be around. She charged me when ever she was loose, she was fine as soon as I had hold of her, but getting close enough to get her was becoming more and more of an issue :( She had been good for the 6 months prior, until her hormones kicked in.

I had planned to leave her another 9-12 months before backing but after talking it over with my trainer we concluded giving her brain something to think about and her learning some boundaries would be beneficial, and I didn't want to do that on the lunge/in the school because of her age, so decided to back her so she could start learning about the outside world a bit that year. It was the right choice for us at the time, and I don't regret it. I do not think any of her lameness issues have been caused by it because her X-rays were, to quote the vet "the best I have seen in a horse of her age and no signs of arthritis or any other boney changes". That is just one small part of her, but its a part prone to failure in many horses and she was no worse for wear.
 
I can't speak for a nation, but those I have spoken to say they don't see an increased occurance of injury, the horses are backed at 2 and that's the way it is. There is also the 'they are quick to mature' argument (which is scientifically inaccurate in terms of their skeletal system) but because they look fully developed they are considered mature. There is also, 'because we have always done it that way', which I think stemmed from the pioneer days, when people simply couldn't afford to raise a horse for 4/5 years before it started earning its keep.

I can speak to my own actions, Jess was backed just before she turned 3, in her 3yo summer she was lightly hacked, then just before she turned 4yo she went back for 1 months more intensive training and was schooling and competing regularly as a 4yo.

Frankly she was a demon horse as a 2yo, she had kicked me putting me on the floor several times, double barreling (repeatedly) me against fences/gates on more than one occasion, boxed me in the face (front foot square between the eyes) and was generally impossible to be around. She charged me when ever she was loose, she was fine as soon as I had hold of her, but getting close enough to get her was becoming more and more of an issue :( She had been good for the 6 months prior, until her hormones kicked in.

I had planned to leave her another 9-12 months before backing but after talking it over with my trainer we concluded giving her brain something to think about and her learning some boundaries would be beneficial, and I didn't want to do that on the lunge/in the school because of her age, so decided to back her so she could start learning about the outside world a bit that year. It was the right choice for us at the time, and I don't regret it. I do not think any of her lameness issues have been caused by it because her X-rays were, to quote the vet "the best I have seen in a horse of her age and no signs of arthritis or any other boney changes". That is just one small part of her, but its a part prone to failure in many horses and she was no worse for wear.

Thanks Jessey, really informative to hear a personal take on it and some of the reasons why people might back at a younger age.
 
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With racing the bottom line I think is money. I have to say I do not agree with starting them so young, but someone somewhere has to be willing to pay for this grass eating creatures. Jumpers tend to start around four and race for longer than the flat. So although start later they probably have more injuries?
Leaving a group of youngsters in a field could result in injuries that stop them racing before they start even.

My lease has just enjoyed his winter off, he's 4. He's only raced three times in all his life. He's just been entered and he's the only horse that's only raced that little, my friend has had to search high and low for something like that. So far his winter costs are more than it costs to keep the cob for a whole year! So it brings me back to money.


All top end sports get injuries. I think I read somewhere that dressage horses were the most likely to breakdown from the constant strain of the collection.
The difference between other sports and racing if you like, is with other sports the horse can be downgraded, sold or left as field ornament. In racing I don't think that would happen, it's put down. Some feel thats cruel some would say actually that's kinder.
As leisure horse owners we spend hundreds if not thousands keeping sick and lame horses going that the racing industry wouldn't do. The amount that looks to be put down is because it's a high profile sport in the news all the time and any injury that means that the horse can't race I would think that's it. Well it was for the other horse I was offered and he was wintering out in the paddock.
Statistics I believe the deaths are very similar across the sports. There are roughly 14 thousand racehorses in training in the uk at the moment, you will lose some.

The ground, there are all weather polytracks but not all horses run well on these and not all trainers like them. Some feel is tougher on the legs as less forgiving, bit like galloping on the beach isn't really a good idea but people do it.
I'm not happy with mine running with heavy going and neither is the trainer. If the race isn't right he won't be declared.
The course itself the horse gallops for two minutes and is finished. It's a thousand times fitter than me and mine with a lightweight jockey on level ground. It takes me that long to get down the drive.:)
I've hunted in worse most likely.
 
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Being the owner of a ex race horse he is a horse that i would never have been able to afford to buy if not for being a failed racer.

Yes they are back young and yes I hate that but I also know that the industry are trying to eliminate the injuries and damage that may be caused through their training.

I watched program with a amazing bit of kit that allowed the horses to train on a track with know rider on its back I will try to find it and link it. Yes this is the high end part of the business but they are trying.

The race courses have permanent grounds men and course is carefully managed on the run up to any event.

There are injuries in every area of horse sport from leisure riders to high end. The problem with racing is that you see a horse break down on tv it looks horrid what you don’t see is the trainers and grooms crying.

I don’t think racing is any worse then backing a sj or dr horse at say four and pushing it up the classes produced to quickly and has to retire at 12 to be used as a companion or gentle hack only.

My lad raced got injured was treated and rehomed he has a whole second career doing a bit of everything with me.

So no to me racing is a passion and then if you get lucky you get own one of these magnificent creatures

Were you thinking of this.
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/innovative-training-system-for-british-racehorses-528664
 
What I don't know and think might be helpful is whether the horses are independently passed fit to race at the meeting...just thinking of the trot up in eventing or the heart rate monitoring in endurance. I would hope that they are.
We basically need better humans involved in sport and better independent monitoring of welfare.
They are passed by a vet but the trainer can self certificate a non runner.
Usually blood tested as well.
 
@newforest thanks for your post, apologies I don't know loads about you but such an informative post, and that article is interesting too. I wonder if he's done any updates since that was written as to how it's worked for him and his horses.

Completely agree with your point about the potential for injury if left in the field to mature, and the cost involved in keeping a horse for 3/4 years before it earns its keeps so to speak. I guess it's tricky for those involved in the industry to find that balance.

A horse is different to any other kind of companion animal as well, they tend to have a 'job' to do and if they can't do that job it's a massive commitment to try and keep them going. I can certainly see where you're coming from with the point about putting them down potentially being kinder if they can't compete in their discipline any more due to injury.

I suppose with the National coming up this topic is bound to get some attention somewhere in the media, especially if it's a 'bad' one in terms of injury. It's not something I can bring myself to watch (I know that sounds silly) but this thread has given me a much better understanding than any websites were able to.
 
The problem with racing is that you see a horse break down on tv it looks horrid what you don’t see is the trainers and grooms crying.
Just been told my lease is running and as much as that's the whole point of it, you worry about them. I can't help feeling emotional and he's not run yet!
I have that extra bit of a connection having been kept up to speed every few weeks with his progress. I am rubbish really at the 'working horse' doing a job.
Just get home safe and sound, the placings are irrelevant.
 
Just been told my lease is running and as much as that's the whole point of it, you worry about them. I can't help feeling emotional and he's not run yet!
I have that extra bit of a connection having been kept up to speed every few weeks with his progress. I am rubbish really at the 'working horse' doing a job.
Just get home safe and sound, the placings are irrelevant.

All the best in his race! Let us know how he gets on
 
All the best in his race! Let us know how he gets on
The course is being inspected to check if it's safe enough to hold the meeting. It could be cancelled.
Nobody wants to run a horse on unsafe ground. Even if it gets the ok the trainer might still pull him out. I respect his knowledge and I would rather he pulled him out than risk it.
 
Something I kind of don't get is the big TRAINER Bob Bafferts with multiple of his horses they are training but by different owners in the same races.

Not knowing the ins and outs of racing.

He can't be telling ALL those owners you have a winner in this race.


No he wouldn't be.
I can only go by my current and previous leases as to why this could easily be the case.

Horses are put into a race based on their handicap and class. That tells you what races you can do.
My lease is rated 77 he's declared for the 0-75 class 5, so carrying a penalty for being over. Entered for 0-85 class 4 carrying less weight.

But it can also be age restricted.

It might happen that the trainer has four horses that can run in that race, let's say its a mile on good going.
One has been producing really good work and is ready to go up a trip, first time this length.
One didn't do well on the good/ firm ground last time, trying this ground.
One it's their debut run, so it's just to get them out.
One has just changed trainers/ owners so dropping a trip.


If you think of it in terms of showjumping or eventing. Top trainers can have a string of horses that could compete alongside each other. But for a variety of reasons.
It's not about the winning in most cases it's experience and finding what the horse actually likes. :D Oh yes they have preferences.
 
The course is being inspected to check if it's safe enough to hold the meeting. It could be cancelled.
Nobody wants to run a horse on unsafe ground. Even if it gets the ok the trainer might still pull him out. I respect his knowledge and I would rather he pulled him out than risk it.

Absolutely, completely agree, not worth the risk! Good luck whatever is decided.
 
Hi there
The research around racing is actually really interesting - and absolutely loads has been and is being done. This is because betting contributes 10% of its profits into research, and this benefits all our horses with the vast amount of stuff done. Most of what we know today comes from TB research.

However what I really wanted to let you guys know about is the extensive research done looking at age of training and longevity - basically does the age a horse starts to train affect how long it lasts in the industry. Probably one of the most knowledgeable people in research with TBs has carried out a longitudinal (many years) study looking at precisely this, and has reported that the younger a horse begins its training, the longer it lasts in the industry! Really not what we would expect - unless you start investigating how bone is remodelled (Wolff's Law) and then you begin to understand how this might actually work.

I have been a researcher for many years, with a love of racing, however I would like to see the problems associated with it (the main one being wastage - i.e. where do the horses go after their careers) being solved at source. So a restriction on breeding numbers, more prize money to make it quality not quantity, the toughest courses being far more scrutinised (strangely enough Aintree is one of the easiest) and also more scientific research being brought into racing.

Saying that, for some odd reason race horse trainers seem in my humble experience far more likely to take notice of new research than dressage or show jumping yards!

If anyone has any questions about the research side of TBs I may be able to help.
 
That's very interesting @RoseSco can you provide links to that research so I can read it? I'm interested in longevity of the horse though really, not just its career as a racer, is there any data on that, that you are aware of?
 
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