Physiotherapy for horses

[Mary Poppins]

This is my hot topic of the moment. I have failed my horse very badly by not spotting a very sore back and poll which meant that he physically could not do what I was asking for him.

For the last 3 years he has had 6 monthly bowen sessions. This isn't a physio session but more of a deep massage where the facia and muscles are worked on the release any tight parts. The therapist has a good reputation and says that this is an all complete treatment and nothing else is needed. They cost £60 per session. Two weeks ago she saw my horse and said he didn't need any more treatment (can you tell I am not feeling the love for her right now!).

I also had a physio out last year who practises the T-Touch method. She found some tightness and treated with a few stretches and a massage pad on his back, but otherwise gave a clean bill of health. I also paid her £60 a treatment.

However, nether of these people actually trotted my horse up, or saw him move. Obviously hindsight is wonderful and I now understand that they cannot have treated him properly if they hadn't seen him move.

I had a new physio out who trotted up several times, did tight circles etc. and concluded that he was one of the worst cases she had seen in a while. She can't say how long he has been like this for, but in my heart of hearts I know that it is at least since last summer which is why I made the first physio appointment to have looked at alongside the bowen. I knew something was wrong but I listened to bad advise.

So my questions to you all are:
1. Does your horse see a regular physiotherapist? If not why not?
2. How often do you have treatments?
3. Does your therapist watch your horse move?
4. Does your horse see any other 'professional' e.g. bowen or similar?
5. If you don't have treatments, is it the cost which puts you off?

 

[Kite_Rider]

1. Yes she does, as and when I feel she needs it.
2. See above
3. Oh yes, she watches, she records on her special video with slow motion play back (fascinating to watch), she turns, backs up, walks and trots up, stretches her every which way.
4. Nope, only the dentist and vet.
5. N/A

 

[Mary Poppins]

1. Yes she does, as and when I feel she needs it.
2. See above
3. Oh yes, she watches, she records on her special video with slow motion play back (fascinating to watch), she turns, backs up, walks and trots up, stretches her every which way.
4. Nope, only the dentist and vet.
5. N/A

How do you know when she needs to see one? What signs and symptoms do you look out for? And how often is this?

 

[Jessey]

1. Does your horse see a regular physiotherapist? If not why not?
When I had the vet recommended (because I asked for it not because they suggested it) physio out to Jess during her lameness she deemed her ok and said she doesn't recommend routine check ups, unless there is an issue, she said to call if I had any concerns or want her seen again.
2. How often do you have treatments?
Mine are checked about twice a year by the naturopath/osteo (who also treats me), others as nec. vet annually.
3. Does your therapist watch your horse move?
They don't come twice if they don't.
4. Does your horse see any other 'professional' e.g. bowen or similar?
I have several therapists I use, physio, naturopath/osteo , sports massage therapist, a mctimony chiro and masterson.
5. If you don't have treatments, is it the cost which puts you off?
N/A

 

[carthorse]

To begin with I use a chiro not a physio. And a general warning to people looking for any sort of body worker - if they're worth their salt then they should ask for vet clearance before working on your horse.

@Mary Poppins , to answer your questions

1) I get my chiro out if I think he needs her, not as a routine thing. I used to do routinely until a few years ago a vet advised against it for Jim because we were actually upsetting the balance he'd found for himself that made dealing with his problems most comfortable for him - put that way it made a lot of sense. Since Little Un also has problems - in his case feet - I take the same approach & only have her out if I feel there's a new problem. He's a sensitive lad & so it's normally quite easy to tell! Interestingly, and not really relevant to your question, he'll only let her treat him if he has a problem & once the sore area is dealt with he's a little **** about letting her elsewhere!

2) I see a physio when I have problems, not as routine. I do, however, regularly do the exercises my physio has given me in the past.

3) Yes my chiro always watches a horse move. Has them walked up, trotted up, backed up & turned both ways as a minimum. I've also seen her refuse to treat a horse until it's seen a vet because she's felt that was what was needed.

4) No

5) I'd be lying if I said cost wasn't a factor, but it's a factor because I don't want to waste money (or a sought after professional's time) visiting a horse that doesn't need treatment.

 

[Kite_Rider]

How do you know when she needs to see one? What signs and symptoms do you look out for? And how often is this?

I will get the physio if she feels 'off' I can't explain it better than that, just that I can feel when something isn't quite right with her, as for how often well that really depends on Belle, I have the physio at least once a year for a check over anyway. I have in the past had her out twice in a year with a follow up after a month of physio exercises.

 

[Mary Poppins]

I will get the physio if she feels 'off' I can't explain it better than that, just that I can feel when something isn't quite right with her, as for how often well that really depends on Belle, I have the physio at least once a year for a check over anyway. I have in the past had her out twice in a year with a follow up after a month of physio exercises.

And when you feel that she is off, are you generally right? Does the physio find problems in the areas where you think there is a problem?

Sorry for all the questions, I don't mean to be nosy I am just trying to work out how I could have got this so badly wrong myself. Some people seem to think that physios are actually devils whose sole purpose it is to abstract money from us and hurt the horses in the meantime (I don't mean you btw).

 

[Kite_Rider]

http://www.oaklands-physiotherapy.co.uk/
This is my physio, she is amazing and I would happily recommend her to anyone.

 

[Kite_Rider]

And when you feel that she is off, are you generally right? Does the physio find problems in the areas where you think there is a problem?.

I'm always right, sorry if that sounds arrogant, it's not meant to be. Belle is just an easy horse for me to 'read' now. I'm not very good at knowing where the problem is though, I just know if there is one.The physio will find any problem - even to the point of referring me back to the vet if she thinks it's not a physio issue.

 

[domane]

1. Yes, my horse sees a regular physio. But she doesn't see a physio regularly.

2. When required, but at least annually.

3. Yes, and let's my vet know she's coming.

4. No

5. Yes, cost is a factor which is why she gets them but I don't get treatments for myself!

I would also add that whilst I have the greatest respect for anyone who is trained in TT or Bowen's but IMHO they are complementary therapies and are something that I would only consider alongside people who have done official animal physiotherapy training.

With major problems I would call in an official vet physio....we have someone locally who was asked to be on the Olympic veterinary support team for the British horses, down in London in 2012. That's recommendation enough for me!

If I was stuck, I would always ask my vets for their personal recommendations too.

 

[KP nut]

So my questions to you all are:
1. Does your horse see a regular physiotherapist? If not why not?
2. How often do you have treatments?
3. Does your therapist watch your horse move?
4. Does your horse see any other 'professional' e.g. bowen or similar?
5. If you don't have treatments, is it the cost which puts you off?

A few years ago I abandoned my science head in favour of the buzz word: holistic. I had a 'holistic" bare foot trimmer, a "holistic" dentist and used massage. All these holistic professionals were dismissive of vets generally saying they treated symptoms not the whole horse. Then Xavier went lame and I called a vet. (When there was a REAL problem I knew who I wanted!) Then Oscar went lame and I called the vet again who said I needed a 'proper' farrier as he needed remedial farriery under vet supervision. I found myself back in the world of properly accredited people answerable to codes of conduct and regulatory bodies. I ditched my dentist in favour of a veterinary dentist who only ever works with horses under sedation. I discovered that Max had NEVER had the back of his mouth done properly. Dentist said it was quite common for people to just fail to do a thorough job when they don't sedate. I also discovered you do not need ANY QUALIFICATIONS AT ALL to be an equine dentist. You can do a weekend course in some holistic approach (say Natural Balance Dentistry) and then go round doing horses teeth at £130 a go.

And at that point I got a vet recommended physio and ditched my massage therapist. Yes she watches them move, she backs them up, she trots them on a circle, she gets them stepping hindquarters across, she tests their proprioceptive skills. She is very, very thorough. And she is absolutely fab. All mine are checked over at least every 6 months and immediately if there is any change; In fact she is coming today for Amber & Ginny because Amber has been reluctant to pop up into canter recently and Ginny looks a little tight behind when ridden in trot. She is not tracking up which is a change for her. She does not charge for a check - she just runs her hands over them and watches them move. If they are fine that's the end of it. So they are not having unececessary treatment or massage.

I am sure there are excellent people out there but in future I will only ever use registered professionals with appropriate qualifications.

 

[Mary Poppins]

1. Does your horse see a regular physiotherapist? If not why not?
When I had the vet recommended (because I asked for it not because they suggested it) physio out to Jess during her lameness she deemed her ok and said she doesn't recommend routine check ups, unless there is an issue, she said to call if I had any concerns or want her seen again.
2. How often do you have treatments?
Mine are checked about twice a year by the naturopath/osteo (who also treats me), others as nec. vet annually.
3. Does your therapist watch your horse move?
They don't come twice if they don't.
4. Does your horse see any other 'professional' e.g. bowen or similar?
I have several therapists I use, physio, naturopath/osteo , sports massage therapist, a mctimony chiro and masterson.
5. If you don't have treatments, is it the cost which puts you off?
N/A

What is an naturopath? Any why would you choose this over physio? I am not criticising btw, it's a whole new world for me.

Don't you get confused with so many different types of therapists? The reason I stuck to bowen was because I wanted a consistent approach, but look where that got me!

 

[Mary Poppins]

A few years ago I abandoned my science head in favour of the buzz word: holistic. I had a 'holistic" bare foot trimmer, a "holistic" dentist and used massage. All these holistic professionals were dismissive of vets generally saying they treated symptoms not the whole horse. Then Xavier went lame and I called a vet. (When there was a REAL problem I knew who I wanted!) Then Oscar went lame and I called the vet again who said I needed a 'proper' farrier as he needed remedial farriery under vet supervision. I found myself back in the world of properly accredited people answerable to codes of conduct and regulatory bodies. I ditched my dentist in favour of a veterinary dentist who only ever works with horses under sedation. I discovered that Max had NEVER had the back of his mouth done properly. Dentist said it was quite common for people to just fail to do a thorough job when they don't sedate. I also discovered you do not need ANY QUALIFICATIONS AT ALL to be an equine dentist. You can do a weekend course in some holistic approach (say Natural Balance Dentistry) and then go round doing horses teeth at £130 a go.

And at that point I got a vet recommended physio and ditched my massage therapist. Yes she watches them move, she backs them up, she trots them on a circle, she gets them stepping hindquarters across, she tests their proprioceptive skills. She is very, very thorough. And she is absolutely fab. All mine are checked over at least every 6 months and immediately if there is any change; In fact she is coming today for Amber & Ginny because Amber has been reluctant to pop up into canter recently and Ginny looks a little tight behind when ridden in trot. She is not tracking up which is a change for her. She does not charge for a check - she just runs her hands over them and watches them move. If they are fine that's the end of it. So they are not having unececessary treatment or massage.

I am sure there are excellent people out there but in future I will only ever use registered professionals with appropriate qualifications.

I would be really interested to see what she finds today. But I am with you on only using registered professionals who are qualified and ideally vet recommended.
Does everyone on your yard see a physio regularly? Not many people do on mine, there is a culture that bloody bowen cures everything and nothing else is needed!

 

[KP nut]

I would be really interested to see what she finds today. But I am with you on only using registered professionals who are qualified and ideally vet recommended.
Does everyone on your yard see a physio regularly? Not many people do on mine, there is a culture that bloody bowen cures everything and nothing else is needed!

Yes. It's a competition yard and people seem very proactive in addressing problems. There are 2 horses at Poole House Vets at the moment who I am fairly sure would have been left on 'wait and see' management on my old yard. On this yard any hint of lameness = referral and full workup. Not saying that's right/necessary but it is how it is.

My YO has the physio routinely every 3 months for the horses in active competition and others usually grab her while she is there. She is seeing 6 horses today.

 

[domane]

Oh I'm the odd one on my yard because I don't conform. For example, I don't use the "usual" saddle fitter because frankly I think she's crap....anyone who takes a saddle AWAY to adjust flocking miles away from your horses's back deserves zero respect from me

I don't always buy into things that are widely accepted by others, when in my mind they are not in the best interests of the horse. I'll do things like take Gracie out for a 3-mile long-line around the lanes instead of slapping a saddle on her and letting her do all the work. I find this highly enjoyable when others will only do it as part of the backing process.

I have my own mind, my own rules and I don't care either. Opinions from others are shrugged off

 

[Mary Poppins]

Yes. It's a competition yard and people seem very proactive in addressing problems. There are 2 horses at Poole House Vets at the moment who I am fairly sure would have been left on 'wait and see' management on my old yard because any hint of lameness = referral and full workup. Not saying that's right but it is how it is.

My YO has the physio routinely every 3 months for the horses in active competition and others usually grab her while she is there. She is seeing 6 horses today.

My yard has the 'wait and see' and 'work them through it' approach. They were shocked I called the vet so quickly when he first got the splint and they don't agree with the physio that Ben needs that extent of work done. Apparently the physio is scaremonging me and 'a horse like Ben' (i.e. not a competition horse in the sense that we compete at a high level) doesn't need that level of treatment. They don't like my vet because I don't use the standard 'yard vet' and will pick holes in everything he tells me. I just want to take my horse home and keep him in my garden away from the constant criticism. I am ranting now but I honestly think that I am going crazy!

 

[Mary Poppins]

Oh I'm the odd one on my yard because I don't conform. For example, I don't use the "usual" saddle fitter because frankly I think she's crap....anyone who takes a saddle AWAY to adjust flocking miles away from your horses's back deserves zero respect from me

I don't always buy into things that are widely accepted by others, when in my mind they are not in the best interests of the horse. I'll do things like take Gracie out for a 3-mile long-line around the lanes instead of slapping a saddle on her and letting her do all the work. I find this highly enjoyable when others will only do it as part of the backing process.

I have my own mind, my own rules and I don't care either. Opinions from others are shrugged off

I am having a problem shrugging it off right now. I feel absolutely dreadful that Ben is lame, has a bad back and then is dehydrated to the extent that he couldn't stand up! My yard think that I should just disregard the box rest and turn him out in his 20 acre field and all the problems will magically resolve. I don't want him on box rest one little bit, but if I just turn him out and ignore my vet then his lameness won't go away, it will just get worse. I had to fight to get the small paddock to turn him out into. It's crazy, I pay a fortune to keep a horse on livery (when I do everything myself) on an expensive yard because I thought that I was getting good advise and support from people more experienced than me. Now I just don't know who to listen to and want to take him away from them all.

 

[Jessey]

What is an naturopath? Any why would you choose this over physio? I am not criticising btw, it's a whole new world for me.

Don't you get confused with so many different types of therapists? The reason I stuck to bowen was because I wanted a consistent approach, but look where that got me!

My naturopath is a fully qualified osteopath for humans and animals, plus she has done a fair bit of additional training so can provide a holistic approach to treatment, its about a natural approach to self healing, in addition to osteo treatment she will also recommend, exercises or foods/herbs that can support healing. She is registered and certified to perform this.

I didn't really choose her because she is a naturopath, that just luckily fits with my ethos. When I moved here a bit over 10 years ago I had terrible ongoing back/hip troubles, I was recommended to see 'Helen the back lady' by a couple of friends so I did, she had me moving in just a couple of treatments (i'd tried all sorts before her with little improvement), and it turned out she is a life long rider, has her own horses and is qualified to treat horses too, so I started using her for the horses, and have done ever since. Its a bonus she lives locally and is now a firm friend so she will fit me or the horses in short notice which is super helpful

Price really isn't indicative how good someone is, Helen charges 30 quid a pop but a session is normally only about 20-30 mins. The vet recommended physio I used was 50 quid, and she also treats people at Addenbrookes the other 3 days a week she isn't working on horses. My McTimmony is 50 quid, she was the endurance Team GB support for years. Richard Maxwell was the Masterson chap I used, and I think he was 60 quid. I know of lots of others who don't have such a reputation who charge 70 and 80 a session, even one who charges 110 with not such a good reputation but great sounding qualifications.

 

[mystiquemalaika]

I use a vet chartered physio and she is the only 1 in the area to have that in her title. She is worth her weight in gold and sorely under charges ar £50 a session. She always needs vet referral and does a walk/trot up, tight circles, moving backwards, seen on a lunge if needed. I swear by her and wouldnt trust any of the other people round here tbh. How often depends on the horses, some are seen more regular and some more maintenance every 6 months ish.

 

[Lemme]

We had the Physio out to Charlie following the last dumping of daughter on trying to back, wish we had listened to him the previous time - she found no end of issues which would certainly have caused the problems we were having - there was no external signs, he had been under the vet for his Lammi and had frequent visits and declared fit, but what was going on under his skin was a different story, we had to insist to the vet we wanted the Physio, one said no but we went above him and they cleared the visit, he had the initial checks and work, then a visit a month later, a visit and work at 3 months and is due another quite soon.

I had Acorn checked during the last visit, she did some work on him - nothing major but some stiffness and misalignment one side and this is the first winter he has been comfortable without mobility issues, he has been out 24/7 unrugged, his feet are better than they have ever been and so is his temperament.

Well worth the money in both cases, will see how they fare on next visit, not sure if daughter has confidence to try backing Charlie again after 2 bad falls but she will show him in hand, she has Gem now for ridden so not a deal breaker.
Acorn I am going to see if we can get him working in the field/menage and open up options for him, hes great out on the roads but hated schooling work, if it was the stiffness causing the issues when schooled or just bloodymindedness we will soon know.