Interested in other opinions

[Jessey]

I've been following a conversation on a FB group, re farriers not telling clients about thrush, bruising, lgl that was happening with their horses, lots of people seem to be wanting to hold the farrier responsible for the horses problem, as if it is their responsibility to diagnose and advise treatment for these things.

Don't get me wrong, I would rather hear it from a farrier, I always appreciate it and they are often the more experienced in footy things, but legally they cannot diagnose any problem with a horse, only a vet can as its a protected profession, so why does anyone expect them to (rather than hoping they will to help you out).

Its the fact people seem to be saying 'its not my fault the horse has thrush, Its the farriers fault for not telling me' which I just find ludicrous. It wouldn't surprise me if the reason the farrier didn't tell them is because they are that type who always wants to blame someone else and would sue them if they had it the slightest bit wrong.

 

[Trewsers]

It was only after reading on here that I realised good farriers could spot potential foot problems. I wouldn't expect the farrier to automatically diagnose or inform me. However, I do always ask the question: how are her feet looking? I tend to mention things, say for example if any of mine were not quite right, I might say something like, do they look okay to you, not bruised or anything? I think society in general seems to look for someone to blame for lots of things. I don't envy anyone in business in connection with animals or people these days.

 

[Jane&Ziggy]

I hate the way people look for someone to blame. Anything rather than take responsibility themselves.

I suppose the ideal farrier would say, "These feet smell a bit thrushy to me, maybe better speak to your vet if you haven't dealt with it before," or "These feet are very sensitive, I wonder if there might be some issues with the grass, I would get the vet if I were you." But then they would be accused of being in the vets' pockets. no doubt!

 

[Jessey]

I hate the way people look for someone to blame. Anything rather than take responsibility themselves.

I suppose the ideal farrier would say, "These feet smell a bit thrushy to me, maybe better speak to your vet if you haven't dealt with it before," or "These feet are very sensitive, I wonder if there might be some issues with the grass, I would get the vet if I were you." But then they would be accused of being in the vets' pockets. no doubt!

That is exactly how I feel about it.

 

[OwnedbyChanter]

I have an excellent relationship with mine and completely trust his opinion on my boys feet.

Recently chanter had another abscess the vet cane removed the shoe and literally sliced his sole away. I didn’t know it was an abscess just that chanter was stiffer than normal.

When I called the farrier and asked him to pop it back on he said I should have called him first as his sole has been left very thin we’re they chopped at it. He put the shoe back on for free. Told me call him first if I think it is good related.

He talks through any issues while he works on them also comments how chanter looks and how stiff he is to help me gauge his meds.

If something went wrong I would not blame him he cares and only offers advise if you ask

 

[orbvalley]

Same as @OwnedbyChanter for me too - I have a great relationship with the farrier, he's always helpful and shares his knowledge. However I do agree that he wouldn't and shouldn't be held to account on diagnostics.

 

[Mary Poppins]

I wouldn't hold my farrier to account, but I would expect him to raise any potential problems with me and advise me to call the vet. But I think that it is rare that he would find a problem that I didn't know was there already? Ben has had several abscesses but it has always been me raising them with the farrier rather than the other way round. I would like to think I would notice if he had thrush or laminitis before the farrier did.

 

[Prjsmk]

If my farrier notices something he says so and says it needs a vet or whatever but i also keep an eye his feet myself in between trims and look for any changes/smells or tender areas. I check everything on my horse to make sure all is ok so why would i not check his feet too? Its all part of it not just to be left to the farrier. Xx

 

[Star the Fell]

My farrier is fab!!! Spent ages on the phone to me when Star was diagnosed with lami, gave his honest opinion about vet recommendations etc. Also checked in a couple of weeks later between trims to see how she was doing. Another horse on the yard had thrush, he told the owner straight away said what he would do, but also said ‘ you should ring your vet too, to get his opinion’ . Told my friend straight that her horse was obese and at risk from lami (Absolutely true, but owner couldn’t see it herself)

I think they should tell you about potential problems but should always cover themselves by recommending a qualified Vets opinion.

 

[PePo]

I have a good relationship with my DAEP, but the reality is they are the best part of 80 miles away & I see them every 3 months - so have had to learn a lot about hooves myself.

I'd probably raise concerns to my DAEP before my vet if a non-emergency, as they are a barefoot hoof expert. But obviously in an emergency or for a firm diagonisis, I'd need to involve vet's.

 

[Cortrasna]

My farrier is very good I think - always tells me if he has spotted something I might have missed and answers any of my weird and probing questions quite happily. He is especially good with my Bertie donkey - who does have a couple of foot issues - occasional low grade lammi and one back hoof growing distorted due to arthritis in his hip, he has managed to keep him 80 per cent sound on his dodgy back hoof coming out just to do him every 4 weeks and always talks me through how he is trimming him and why etc. etc. My last farrier suggested I have Bertie put down when the awkward movement first started to create hoof growth problems! He soon got kicked off the yard

 

[Bodshi]

A bit like @Cortrasna really, I think I ask the questions before the farrier has time to tell me anything. I know my next visit in a couple of weeks he'll ask me how Raf is and I'll tell him he's gone out on the spring grass at last and say I'm worried about laminitis due to his Cushings and he'll give me his opinion. I'm pretty sure he'd tell me if he spotted anything wrong that I didn't know about.

I was having a similar conversation with my saddle fitter a couple of weeks ago. She said she would never tell a client their horse was lame unless she knew them really well, because of the possible ramifications. She would say something like "your horse has an unusual gait which is causing you to tip to the right" but wouldn't go further than that.

 

[newforest]

Mine is great as well. We always discuss the workload we are currently doing and he tells me how much roadwork we are doing by how hard the hooves are.
Don't forget a farrier isn't just looking at the hoof they are looking at the whole horse, confirmation wise. I will tell him we have moved onto new grazing etc and will be developing a bulge condition!!
The only one with sensitive feet is me when she steps on them!

If I suspect a problem with her feet, I would call him out for advice over the vet. When she went lame I got him out and he couldn't see anything obviously wrong. I own hoof testers and neither could I.
She did have a bloody big hole that he hadn't touched because it didn't need digging, but we did in case that was the cause of her problem. It wasn't but the vet had to plug it for xray as it kept showing as big hole. I was how is she not lame with that!!

I don't know if he's up to speed on lgl. He is your horse is sound or your horse is lame. If it's lame then we look further. If it's not don't fiddle. So lgl would be lame.

He recommends stock holm tar and I didn't know they still did it. It's runny crap now!

 

[newforest]

She said she would never tell a client their horse was lame unless she knew them really well, because of the possible ramifications. She would say something like "your horse has an unusual gait which is causing you to tip to the right" but wouldn't go further than that.

But isn't that irresponsible to fit a saddle to a lame horse? Can some owners not be approached on the subject?
I think it's been said that a high percentage of horses actually are and the owner isn't aware.
I had a lesson where we stopped it because the cob started off stiff and didn't improve. I discussed this with RI though and said she's stiff.
I would have cancelled a saddle fit.

 

[Jessey]

I get that everyone likes their farrier/saddler etc. you wouldn't keep using them if you didn't and I am not saying the vet is more experienced than a specialist but are secondary care people responsible for diagnosing a problem in your eyes? would you hold them accountable if they had not mentioned something like thrush and you later found out your horse had it? given that legally they cannot tell you that?

I hugely appreciate when a secondary care person advises me they suspect XXX is going on and that I need a vet, it's one of my criteria for a "good" specialist, but I would not blame them if either, I didn't listen to their subtle hints (because they can't outright diagnose) or they had made a judgement call at the time that it was not a vet level issue so had chosen not to suggest getting the vet for it and so not said anything about it (I do believe they do have a duty of care to advise when a vet is needed).

But isn't that irresponsible to fit a saddle to a lame horse? Can some owners not be approached on the subject?
I would have cancelled a saddle fit.

I do think it irresponsible to fit a saddle to a lame horse (not saying your saddler did @Bodshi), however I think the duty of care lies with the owner and the owner should not present a lame horse for fitting as you suggest. In that situation I would expect the fitter to ask the owner if they had the vet assess the unlevel gait, and if not suggest that would be appropriate before fitting a saddle but legally they can't do much more. I think there is a lot of owners who can't be approached about things, who will either take it as gospel and then sue or complain when it isn't exactly right and those who just don't want to hear about problems and get offended when anyone suggests there may be one.

 

[newforest]

In the eyes of the law something is only as good as the day it was done or said.
So even if your horse passes a five stage vetting with flying colours one week. Next week they may have a problem because they rolled funny.

If my farrier doesn't mention thrush and I discover it, would I complain, no.
Regardless of whether they can tell me things, they likely do. It's a two way conversation.

 

[Hoof_hearted]

To an extent I'd say they were, I wouldn't out right pin the blame on them though. The reason we pay these people is because they specialise in the areas we dont. They don't HAVE to tell us when things aren't looking peachy but a good one will and they will advise on what they think the best form of action is regardless wether the animals owner is difficult.
It then falls to us to decide wether we act on the advise given or decide otherwise using our own opinion.
Regarding blaming the farrier for their horse having thrush is ridiculous, the farrier dosnt decide what conditions the horse lives in or food it's fed.
But if inexperienced horse owners not knowing what to look for or unsure what to look for and the condition getting worse I would blame myself for not asking and the farrier for not telling.

 

[Jessey]

In the eyes of the law something is only as good as the day it was done or said.

That's not entirely true in terms of a medical diagnosis and you don't have to be sued to have your reputation destroyed by someone....

To an extent I'd say they were, I wouldn't out right pin the blame on them though.

To what extent are they? in your view

 

[Hoof_hearted]

But if inexperienced horse owners not knowing what to look for or unsure what to look for and the condition getting worse I would blame myself for not asking and the farrier for not telling.

@Jessey like I said I wouldn't outright pin the blame on them but in this scenario I would partially blame them for not helping to educate.

 

[Bodshi]

I think there is a lot of owners who can't be approached about things, who will either take it as gospel and then sue or complain when it isn't exactly right and those who just don't want to hear about problems and get offended when anyone suggests there may be one.

This is exactly what my saddle fitter was saying, also that at the end of the day she isn't a vet and can't go around diagnosing lame horses. If she sees a problem she has to put it to the owner in such a way that she is not making a diagnosis of a lame horse and leave it up to the owner to pursue a diagnosis if they so wish.

I don't think she was talking hopping lameness - the conversation came about because Raf felt a little stiff in the school to start with and I mentioned it to her.