How good is correct

Jessey

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Dec 20, 2004
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Reading the thread about racing got me thinking, about how good correct is, dressage horses being the most likely to break down and synthetic gallops being harder on horses (I've read this in studies too), yet there is much focus on us riding correctly and schooling more (often on a surface) for the benefit of our horses, so at what point does it become too much?
 
That's a complicated question! I suspect the answer has more to do with good sympathetic management than correct riding, but I'm finding it hard to explain my thoughts.
Riding school horses ride on surfaces pretty much all the time and though instructors are trying to get riders to ride correctly this will not always happen. Even so, the majoriity of these horses have long careers, which I think is due to the way they are managed.
Regarding dressage horses and racing horses ie the elite equine athletes it might not be unreasonable to expect their careers at the top of sport to be shorter similar to a professional footballer or 100m sprinter for example. A dressage horse that s ridden correctly and managed sympathetically may retire at the end of an illustious career (Utopia, Valegro) while one that is trained harshly, ridden and managed unsympathetically
might break down (I've a feeling there's at least one famous example, but can't remember the name!)
I do also think that to remain happy in their work horses will benefit from mixing it up a bit in theiir training, hacking as well as schooling and the odd jump thrown in for good measure.
I think I am saying that they will always benefit from being ridden correctly, they just will not benefit from over training beyond their ability and that overall good management has at least as much,if not more importance than correct riding.
 
I would argue that a lot of the competitive dressage you see is very far from correct, and would even go as far as to say that the movement being bred for at the higher end is not conducive to long term soundness.

Schooling to me, implies training with a purpose in mind be that racing, GP dressage or just not falling flat on your face when turning. Likewise there is no one correct riding style because it depends on the discipline & the horse, but to me correct is at the very least keeping out of the horse's way & ideally helping him, If I rock around like a sack of spuds then I'm very difficult for LU to carry be it hacking or schooling, if I sit lightly & in balance it's far easier though it's only very recently that he's developed the strength to carry me happily if I sit in a textbook correct position so when riding him I didn't feel a "correct" position was actually correct unless I wanted a hollow back & tension. Having said schooling is for a purpose I do think that people are so eager to reach their end goal that they rush through the basics, so they have a pretty head carriage but it's only the head & neck, or they can jump a four foot fence but the approach & departure are an unbalanced mess. Maybe riders need schooling in basics? Oh I'm wibbling and probably not making myself clear.

Surfaces can be great or they can be dreadful, but the same can be said of riding on grass & no one would argue the concussive effect of tarmac roads. Going in straight lines at a slow pace there is minimal problem though, it's when the pace is upped &/or you start adding numerous turns or jumps that the problem increases.

I school my lad maybe once a week in an arena, more often if the weather is foul because we also have a small indoor & so it means he gets some exercise still. I'm not competitive but he has physical problems & I aim to help him minimise the strain by getting him stronger & more balanced. This has took a fair amount of time, maybe because of how I train him, but now he's a more balanced, forward going ride who is less inclined to haul himself along on damaged front feet & no longer goes hollow. His ability to cope with rough ground & downward slopes has improved dramatically. Will we ever do a dressage test? I very much doubt it, and I'd never ask him to jump, but his schooling has produced a lad who is happier & more capable in his main job of hacking & isn't that what schooling is ultimately about?
 
We had a debate about this many years ago on here. I remember commenting about "working from behind" or " in a frame" being harder on horses' hocks when they will naturally be on the forehand, given half the chance. Are we actually doing them any favours, making them look pretty, with self-carriage under saddle? I'd love to know the rates of hock arthritis, tendon issues or splints in wild horses.
 
@domane I feel the problem with that comparison is that wild horses are not asked to carry a rider, also when they develop a problem it's likely the end for them so you don't see hock arthritis etc because the horse falls prey to hunters. In our world horses have a job & we need to help them adapt to do it as easily as possible - engaging their core to form a stronger shape makes sense to me, it's far more than just a pretty shape.
 
The whole idea of working a horse from behind is to strengthen his back so he can take the weight of the rider. Horses are not designed to carry people and if we let them carry their weight on their forehand with a rider on board, they are more prone to injury.

But yes, the question is how much is too much? Take the puissance for example. We all love to watch horses jumping such ridiculous heights but think of the poor horses who have suffered injury and rejection whilst training for this.
 
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I intended this question to cause discussion because we haven't had a good one in a while :p I understand the logic of why we work them 'correctly' but those riding school ponies with careers into their 20s are possibly an example of it not being as crucial as some lead us to believe ;) I've seen jumping surfaces lame reining horses (almost 20% of entrants at one show in horses who had been sound for years doing the same work, and in that arena until the surface was changed) which def makes you consider ground more. It's a good point about the wild vs leisure horse and the job they do. To me even between now and 20 years ago the job of a leisure horse has evolved hugely, or perhaps its my perspective that has :)
 
Ooh, MP, I've never heard of horses working on the forehand being more prone to injury. Do you have specifics, please?
No I don’t have any facts as such . I have been talking to my physio and a friend who is an equine sports therapist about Ben’s issues. They both stress the importance of him working from behind to lift his back and build his muscles. He threw his splint on his left fore because he was working on the forehand because of pain in his right hind. Now why his right hind is painful is anyone’s guess at the moment. I have never successfully managed to get him off his forehand in all the years I have had him. If I had then maybe his hocks and back would be stronger and the problems wouldn’t have happened? I don’t think you would find a physio that would recommend a horse should be ridden on his forehand, but I am no expert and stand to be corrected.
 
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To back @Mary Poppins up, my trimmer and my RI both tell me that the more work we can do to get Ziggy to take his weight back onto his haunches, the better it will be for him and the longer a working life he will have. At the moment he is very heavy on the forehand, which means more of a risk for a lami prone pone.
 
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Ooh, MP, I've never heard of horses working on the forehand being more prone to injury. Do you have specifics, please?

This ^^^

I can only go on my own horse and experience, but since I have stopped 'schooling' Belle she is much freer in her movement and has rediscovered her joy in life, we hack now, mostly 'on the buckle' yes she may be a bit hollow, but she really steps out now, something she's not done for years, her walk is better than Ive ever know it to be and she really flies when we go up the gears.
I'm not sure if it was our school surface that wasn't doing her any favours, all I know is now she's a much happier horse. She will still work through from behind out hacking if I ask her too but 'if it aint broke' and all that.
 
It's a shame that draught horses have been bred over the years to be cow-hocked. I understand about the furrows and ploughing at the time but it has really weakened that area for them and they haven't evolved enough yet to be strong enough to work from behind when ridden. This does cause hock issues. With the best muscles in the world, it won't help a joint that's been artificially altered by human intervention.

It's a common belief that draught horses can carry big weights but they can only really pull them. Their spines haven't evolved to be stronger.
 
Interesting subject. As you all know I school a lot but I am very aware of Gingers needs and try and change it up when I can I also make sure he is managed correctly with the correct care.

I am on a riding school and most of the horses are in their 20's most are to some extent lame but the current RI is excellent and allowing certain riders on board and he watches their work level knowing what each one can and can't do. They are only ever ridden on a surface as it is a not a hacking yard. None are broken just very old.

I think riding correctly to me means working from behind up over their backs to allow ease of movement and to carry my weight. Both my boys compete or competed Chanter to elem before he retired from dressage at 18 I could have kept going at the lower level but I did see the point when he could just enjoy hacking out. Bearing in mind he was hardly ridden before I got him at 14 as he was a pet in a field as seen as to dangerous to ride. He retired due to his hocks which was noted by me at 16 so only 2 years competing.

Ginger has been brought on slowly by mean he is now 10 and and touch wood going strong with years left to go in him.

So is hacking a horse all the time better then schooling a horse all the time and which is better on their joints.

On another note I was a middle distance runner a steady 8 1/2 minute miler but my joints took such a beating that now I can only manager 5 miles max but a faster speed. I rode run this I was told was my issue so I changed to off road and now have weak ankles from turning them over so much!
 
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I think I am with the varied workload is good crowd :p I don't think schooling is bad by any means, nor do I think any one discipline is the ideal/terrible, nor hacking on the buckle, varied workload and good management is the answer to longevity as far as I can see :)
 
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Interesting topic, really good post by @carthorse . Would agree with the majority of that.

I think the key to keeping to keeping them sound is keeping them fit for the work they're doing, a healthy weight, shod when they need it and varied work. Also think a lot is down to luck sometimes it's just the way the way the cookie crumbles.

I don't think working on a surface the majority of the time is great for long term soundness but then you could argue neither is concussion from tarmac. I know 2 horses who've done suspensory's neither hacked (nappy) and did a lot of amateur dressage schooling think circles. These horses are now coming back into work with hacking on roads, straight lines only, vet has advised lunging will be a no no in future and schooling will need to be varied. I think that in itself says a lot.

Thinking about the horses on my yard, majority can't walk in a straight line yet go round and round in circles. Circles seem a huge part of most leisure/amateur horses I know. From in the school to lunging to the horse walker, personally I don't think this can be doing the horses any good. Another thing I've noticed is horses left for months not being ridden then suddenly being ridden again and back in lessons the same week, planning fun rides the week after, with feet left up to 12 weeks before the next shoeing. To me that's a recipe for lameness but seems like people don't want to do the old fashioned fitness building of bringing a horse back into work.


Lottie is schooled to hack and hunt and does both very well, can she go on the bit? No, but I'd put money on her being the straightest soundest horse on the yard. She does work from behind and she's level you only have to see her trot to know that. She has hunted from 4 and that's all she's done since. She might be a creaky old lady by the time she's in her teens but she's had a lot of fun to get there. I do my best by her, she's kept very fit for the work she does and no way would I hunt/team chase her if I thought she wasn't at top fitness. I also do a lot of walk and trot work hacking to help keep the ligaments/tendons strong, shod religiously every 6 weeks, ice boots etc. I think if you over think it too much we'd never do anything with our horses or try and put them on wheels.
 
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