Diving/plunging horse!!

My2cobs

My2cobs

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Oct 26, 2016
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help!
I'm havinf issues with My 'butter wouldn't melt' cob youngster.
He's coming up for 5, I broke him very very gently at 3 & he had all last summer off to grow up a bit.
I can't get the stubborn little sod to canter! It took a good long while to get a balanced trot & we are still working at maintaining that. His bum is still much bigger than his shoulders so I'm not pushing him too much or too often I just want him to give me a few strides the once a week he gets schooled.
The issue is that aside from bucking & fly bucking after 3 strides of canter because he wants to stop, on occasions when he doesn't want to get going or is nappy, if we are sharing the school, he plunges before he bucks.
I have no way of maintaining forward motion, and it often comes out of nowhere (we can be doing a lovely forward trot & he can feel like he's ready to break into a canter, and when I put my leg on he stops & plunges at the floor!)
I've had his back done, he's had a once over with the vet, saddle checked & had his teeth done!
He is very stubborn until he decides he enjoys something! ( I would like to say that I have had problems like this in both walk & trot up until about November, on & off when he decides he just doesn't want to do something!)
He's ridden in a fulmer snaffle with a Lozenge.
Someone told me to try a Waterford because he grabs the bit as he does it, so I'm going to give one a go
Anyone got any other ideas/experience with this kind of thing? It putting me off trying to get him going & I so want to get out & have fun on him!
TIA
 
Have you tried lunging does he canter then. I would try without the saddle 1st, then with the saddle to make sure he is comfortable to canter without rider weight but ok with saddle weight.
Does he canter free in the field ok or is his his canter unbalanced. My youngster would canter round the field very unbalanced and would fall over frequently. Now he has more muscle he falls over less.
I would get a second opinion on back etc. It sounds like he might be in pain and he is trying to escape.
 
The joys of a young cob.
As above does he canter loose in the school or down the long side on the lunge? He sounds unbalanceed and possibly isn't ready to carry a rider in canter yet/ fit enough. In which case running is because he can't balance.

Mine actually used to do the head on the floor in canter initially. I ride her all the time with very light contact anyway. She can if annoyed and she wants to let you know, toss her head down and round which would and has pulled me out the saddle. So to start I had her on a loose rein and let her carry on. I didn't want her to have something to lean on. Me.
To help though I let her find canter on a hack, in the school is confined and harder. It still is.
Poles helped and gave her a focus to transition just before then change back. It helped her move her weight back off her shoulders.
Walk to canter was also good, but yours is still bum high so you might want to wait bit?
I swapped temporary to a French Link she didn't give me the lean/ pulling/ taking off feel. She stopped after two rides and I went back to the standard bit.
 
I'd agree with what @newforest says, I'd be going back a step and improving his balance and strength then ask for canter on the straight somewhere once he's stronger so he hasn't got to work so hard.
 
Thanks guys, what your all saying is pretty much how I'm feeling, that he's just not really ready physically yet.
The issue I have is that I don't have any facilities so I can only afford to school/linge once a week
He canters in the field, but struggles on the lunge & behaves like a total lunatic if I loose school him
I've been doing more pole work to build him up & because he enjoys it & it focuses him on the school.
He is just still so babyish. My other cob was SOOOOO much easier to break Hence why I bought another 'easy' gypsy cob he's really challenging me! Which I am trying to see as a good thing because it's helping develop my riding/problem solving skills
He's only been giving me a good trot (and more than a handful of strides before he totally switches off) and a good forward walk tbh, for a couple of months so maybe I'm just rushing him. He wouldn't even walk out until October/November - it would take us over an hour to do a ride that should take 20mins!!
 
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I'd leave canter in the school, in fact I'd be inclined to leave the school entirely for now & focus on hacking - you can school on hacks too. Put the money you'd use hiring the school aside & when he's no longer bum high & is stronger then use it so you can hire the school more frequently for a while. Hacking will build muscle & balance, time will hopefully sort out bum high & with those "problems" dealt with you may find his attitude in the school improves. If you have any decent grassy stretches that's probably the best place to introduce canter too, ideally get a lead from a sensible older horse, let him get on with it & then praise him like mad. The plunging & bucking may well be lack of balance & trying to sort legs out, it's a problem many horses have as babies.

I wouldn't change his bit to something stronger, the chances are he's trying to balance himself & the problem should resolve as he gets stronger & more balanced.
 
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I agree with all the others. Sounds like a physical issue. A year spent hacking out will help no end physically and mentally. When you come back to this it will probably just not be an issue.
 
Are you sure that he is 'stubborn until he enjoys something', or is it possible that he simply doesn't understand what you are asking of him, and when he does understand he is happy to comply? Or is there a problem with him physically doing the work that you are asking of him? How big is the school? If he is unbalanced he may find cantering in a tight space very difficult indeed.

As you are not having much success in schooling at the moment, I would agree with the comments above and leave it for the time being. I would take him hacking and out in big open spaces in company and practice trotting and cantering behind another horse. I would be looking to establish canter in straight lines first.

When you can canter in the field in straight lines, I would go back to the school and work on the lunge. He needs to learn to balance his body round bends. If he doesn't work on the lunge then get someone experienced to teach him how to do it. My horse is very difficult for me to lunge, but magically springs to life when my yard manager does it for me! Lunging is a skill that you need to learn to do well.

Only when he is cantering in straight lines on hacks, and on the lunge in the school would I consider cantering him under saddle in the school. I wouldn't change his bit at this stage either - to be honest he just sounds like a baby who needs to be taught what to do.
 
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I wouldn't be cantering him at all under saddle in the school until the walk and trot are spot on. I would personally work hard at getting the trot balanced and do canter work on the lunge. If he can't balance his canter without a rider he's got no hope of doing it with a rider. When he is more established on the lunge you could introduce a training aid - I recommend the Equiami as it doesn't fix the horse in a position, they're free to do what they like (trust me, my boy has had all four hooves off the floor and done some very clever gymnastics before) but it's more comfy for them to work correctly. They soon pick it up.

My2cobs said:
He canters in the field, but struggles on the lunge & behaves like a total lunatic if I loose school him
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Yeah mine did too and even now still flies round like a bat out of hell when I free school him but with time his lunge work has really come on. It's worth persevering and you'll be surprised at how quick he picks it up.
 
How big is he, curious to know how long his legs are in relation to the body? Mine actually has shorter legs than my friends 12.2hh!! I think these heavier types can be harder to get balanced/ keep balanced because they are carrying so much more bulk/weight than other types.

Mine doesn't walk out, she isn't forward going. But I have mastered getting it by doing the opposite of what want.
She has no interest in keeping up with company and unless I encourage her ( spend most of the ride doing so!) she would just let her company ride off into the sunset! You could try having some company, but mine would rather not have to work to keep up with it. :D

I wonder if you are trying to change what you have? The reason why they switch off is because you could be nagging all the time. He is just four and half.
 
SeeingSpots said:
I wouldn't be cantering him at all under saddle in the school until the walk and trot are spot on. I would personally work hard at getting the trot balanced and do canter work on the lunge. If he can't balance his canter without a rider he's got no hope of doing it with a rider. When he is more established on the lunge you could introduce a training aid - I recommend the Equiami as it doesn't fix the horse in a position, they're free to do what they like (trust me, my boy has had all four hooves off the floor and done some very clever gymnastics before) but it's more comfy for them to work correctly. They soon pick it up.

Yeah mine did too and even now still flies round like a bat out of hell when I free school him but with time his lunge work has really come on. It's worth persevering and you'll be surprised at how quick he picks it up.
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I wouldn't wait for walk & trot to be spot on, you could be waiting a very long time! Canter is just another pace & should be treated as such, treat it as somehow special & you're likely to create problems. Also canter can be very useful for improving the trot & encouraging a stuffy horse to think forwards.

Some canter work on the lunge when he's stronger & not quarters high my be useful, but I don't agree with "if he can't balance his canter without a rider he's got no hope of doing it with a rider" because a good rider can do a lot to balance & support a horse, far more than a person lunging can. I've known horses that watching them canter on a lunge I wouldn't care to canter under saddle, but actually when ridden are fine - one was my beloved Jim who could merrily canter a 10m circle without batting an eyelid (not bad for a 16.2 substantial ID) yet would fall through the outside shoulder & then sod off if in a straight line you dared lunge him! And for what it's worth I never ever worked him in the school when he was quarters high, it threw his balance & shook his confidence.
 
carthorse said:
I wouldn't wait for walk & trot to be spot on, you could be waiting a very long time!
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I was in the same situation with my pony. A weekly lesson together with me riding and lunging him 5 days out 7 and he is now completely balanced in his trot. It took a while yes but I don't believe in quick fixes or rushing things. I think if you want results then you need to put the time and effort in. I didn't treat the canter as special and I didn't create problems, I just didn't canter him under saddle until he was confident at not only carrying me in a balanced trot but cantering nicely and balanced on the lunge. As a result of my patience and hard work that me and my instructor have put in, he's now going absolutely beautifully. His canter still isn't perfect but it's balanced enough for us both to continue working on it with us riding him.

carthorse said:
I don't agree with "if he can't balance his canter without a rider he's got no hope of doing it with a rider"
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I understand that but in my opinion, a young, green horse that can't balance himself in canter is going to struggle with balancing the extra weight of a rider too. I did put my thoughts to my instructor and she agreed and my pony was a perfect example of that. I guess it's just different opinions and experiences.
 
The other issue could simply be he doesn't understand the aids. If you are moving your leg too much and being part off what unbalances/ confuses him, then you could get the bucking. Mine would sort of fly buck as an upwards not really going forwards movement.
So I forgot canter in the school, we found it in the countryside.
 
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I would want them to be able to sustain more than a few strides of trot before asking for canter, from the point that if they aren't strong enough to sustain trot you've got little hope for canter and are likely setting yourself up to fail. I don't think it needs to be perfect before you move on, but I do think you have to get them fit and strong enough before you do.
Lunatic behaviour on the lunge can often be from lack of balance/strength/coordination, stick at it and he'll get there :)
 
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