Caspar The Friendly Horse

In your earlier post he has a 'conformational problem with his hind leg' so is this actually the case? You seem to be back tracking now and I'm unsure as to why one vet has identified this problem when another vet hasn't? A conformation issue usually isn't an issue of opinion?

The conformational issue means he will not do the job he was purchased to do. He will not be the eventer you want him to be? So why wouldn't you not have a case to get your money back???
 
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Just tried to look back at your vids of him to try and spot the conformation problem but I cant see them? I thought your own vet had already looked at him when you first bought him? Or perhaps I misunderstood that. Seems such a shame about Caspar but I am now wondering if dealer might even be able to claim that whatever the issue is, may be somehow related to something you have done with him?

That is why I was trying to take a look at his action as I would have thought if the conformation problem on one hind is that bad to effect his future use so seriously, it would surely be pretty obvious watching him move, even to someone other than a vet? :(
 
what exactly is the conformational problem? I cant see anything either. While yes exercise caution, there are also a load of horses eventing out there with not so ideal conformation and they have never broken down because of it. It’s a risk but he seems a lovely horse that was cheap and you are fond of him...
 
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He has a contracted left hind hoof (club foot) which puts suspensory under far more than usual stress. It is definitely conformation not anything I've done.
 
how severe is it? Before I made any decisions I’d speak with a farrier if you can? If it’s severe then I cant see how any vet would miss something like that but if it’s mild then with correct farriery Id prob take my chances if you still really like him. I bought a young newly backed pony a few years ago and I didnt have her vetted. When my vet saw her he really didn’t like the length of her pasterns and how mobile her fetlocks were, he said he’d not have passed her through a vetting for ANY ridden work due to the stress it would put on her tendons/ligaments. I decided to take my chances and she did xc with me for a season before I sold her - she is still going strong and has never been lame.

eta the other thing is have you thought of an xray?
 
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MrC said:
I'm unsure as to why one vet has identified this problem when another vet hasn't? A conformation issue usually isn't an issue of opinion?

The conformational issue means he will not do the job he was purchased to do. He will not be the eventer you want him to be? So why wouldn't you not have a case to get your money back???
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I could view this two ways.
The first vet sees a young under developed, immature, young horse. They may feel with correct schooling, physio, shoeing and development, that the issue won't be a major problem for the amateur low level competitor.
Second vet says you have a problem and they could go either lame or stay sound. So they fall it.
Had I told the vet I wanted mine to compete, they would have failed her. Now I suspect she might pass. But at the time no chance!
 
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I can't believe that the Irish sale vetting would have missed that if it is bad enough to cause long term problems? :eek: I agree with Charlies Angel I would talk to a very good remedial farrier before making any decisions. I had a warmblood with a very low grade club foot that I owned for about a year before I actually sold at Cavan sales strangely enough - her vet cert from my own vet did mention the club foot but he did say it was unlikely to cause any issues in any future eventing or show jumping. Luckily. although the person who bought the mare did have her immediately re vetted but that vet also agreed it was very low grade and highly unlikely to be an issue. The lady still owns this horse, still events her regularly and this horse in now 16 and I sold her as a 7 year old.

I guess it all depends on how much you trust your own vets opinion, but in view of the fact you did say the horse was very inexpensive, I would be inclined to take the risk and carry on as you say he is so perfect in every other way, subject to a devcent farrier's opinion? Nothing is ever 100 per cent certain with horses anyway - you could buy something vetted 100 per cent sound and it could all go pear shaped on you within 18 months.:oops:
 
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newforest said:
I could view this two ways.
The first vet sees a young under developed, immature, young horse. They may feel with correct schooling, physio, shoeing and development, that the issue won't be a major problem for the amateur low level competitor.
Second vet says you have a problem and they could go either lame or stay sound. So they fall it.
Had I told the vet I wanted mine to compete, they would have failed her. Now I suspect she might pass. But at the time no chance!
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Yep depends on the severity of the club foot. Can't imagine that a vet would miss that during a vetting? Surely would be noted, even if not going to cause a problem.
 
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Cortrasna said:
I can't believe that the Irish sale vetting would have missed that if it is bad enough to cause long term problems?
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I don't think they did. The first vet doesn't feel it will be a problem so it doesn't get mentioned. Problems are, so you fail on them.

The prospective buyer can and " should" have seen a club hoof. I suspect the dealer is offering an alternative because he doesn't have to offer a refund?
My other post I felt he should if the horse has a fault that deems them unsuited for eventing, but that hoof stands out.
 
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Yes when you say conformational leg fault you think further up not foot conformational fault.

Kia had boxy upright feet when I first got him which were noted on his vetting. Looking at his feet now after being barefoot for so long you wouldn't know, he was vetted to be a happy hacker for my mother by has competed in everything and jumped over a meter at comps and hunted over varied terrain etc so proved more than capable for The tasks set.

He foot should have been obvious if you gave him a good look over which the low price should have rung bells and made you look very very closely
 
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MrC said:
Yep depends on the severity of the club foot. Can't imagine that a vet would miss that during a vetting? Surely would be noted, even if not going to cause a problem.
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No I agree, it would have been noted on the vet cert from here certainly - often at the start of bidding the auctioneer will quote from the vets cert anything of note, even relatively minor issues. And sometimes also the vets comments as to suitability for work etc.......either they don't think it will affect performance, or they do think it will possibly cause limitations.

But I believe KP Nut has in her possession, or has at least seen that original vet cert, so it all seems a bit odd to me that it isn't even mentioned on it. :oops:

newforest said:
I don't think they did. The first vet doesn't feel it will be a problem so it doesn't get mentioned. Problems are, so you fail on them.
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I think I disagree with that to a certain extent - IME the above I mention is the usual I have witnessed at Cavan sales....even faults that the vet doesn't think a problem should and usually do get mentioned. Having a vet cert from the sales doesn't necessarily mean that cert is 'clean' 100 per cent - there might be issues mentioned and all vet certs are available to view before the bidding starts - then the prospective bidder can make their own decision if they still think the horse worth bidding on.
 
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Getting a new horse is exciting and shopping for one is nerve wracking and full of problems.

I've never paid much for any of my horses or ponies. Most came with issues hence the cheap prices. Most took a while before they were useful to me. Eowyn was probably the only one who was a serious issue for me and she came with undisclosed tendon blows. Her legs didn't show this but the ultrasounds did after she blew the tendon two years into ownership.

If KP had the initial vet report then I would be interested in seeing it since We can't see any of the videos of his movement, I haven't been to a sale in years so a bit rusty on the processes these days.
 
agree MrC. Ive never had any aspirations to event to the level of the OP, at the most I fancied a go at an 80 or a 90, not sure if those days are gone or not lol, it will depend how Brook jumps and will find that out this summer :D The thing is though, buying horses is a horrible process. KP listen to your gut. I viewed a pony a few years back, confidence was at an all time low. Id travelled 4 hours to see him. He made me feel like no other horse had and I had tried over 20 :( He was EVERYTHING I needed - 14.1hh lighterweight Highland, enough miles on the clock not to be green but still ‘young ish’... genuine, lovely pony that would have done RC, dressage and taken me round an 80 should I have wanted to. I was about to buy him but friends expressed a concern over his leg conformation, I dithered and dithered, peed off the seller in the process and he was sold to someone else. I have ALWAYS regretted it. I heard of him recently, still sound as a pound and going well. I bought Brook unseen - when she arrived she had the worst split and white line disease Ive ever seen. My farrier was not sure if she would stand up to ridden work, so much of a mess was the hoof :( I had a gut feeling, she actually was pretty expensive for a ‘wild’ 3 year old filly in not great condition with a dodgy foot but with brilliant care from my farrier you would never know now there was any problem :D

I hope you get it sorted KP, it’s a heart wrenching thing.
 
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I'm sure anything has to be mentioned on a vetting then after the findings the vet will say if they think the horse is up to do the job the potential buyer wants the horse for. When charlie was vetted he had a little bit where a very small patch of hair was missing from where a horse had bit him no skin broken but it was noted down. They do conment on conformation i know a few that have failed due to confornation. I wouldn't take the risk of buying something that had a major conformation fault, I can garentee my luck would be if I didn't buy it it would be fine for someone else but if I did I'd get nothing but problems. Why have a horse with something wrong with when there's plenty for sale without.
 
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Thanks for all the replies and especially those who acknowledge how hard this is.

I feel like an idiot for missing it myself and I feel sad, angry and guilty. And totally unsure about what to do. Its horrible.

To answer some specific points:
My farrier (a very good remedial farrier) has been to see him and says he does not like the look of the foot at all.

I do have the vetting certificate and it passes him suitable for eventing and makes no mention of the club foot. My vet said this was remiss as the issue is obvious to anyone who knows what they are looking at, would have been present from birth and increases his risk of future lameness. Jumping escalates the risk even more so is not advisable. I have a potential legal right to return as my vet has put in writing that he is not fit for purpose as a sport horse. But dealer is banking on the vet certificate from Cavan and has said I would need to take him to court for a refund. I am not at all sure I would win and I am not sure I want the stress of the fight.

I don't know what I will do but I do know what I won't do... I would not jump a horse having been advised against it - it would just feel totally wrong and if he did go lame I'd feel responsible. And as @Skib said I do not want to give up on my dream of eventing. So he needs to move on one way or another.
 
ahhh ok well I do sympathise :( here’s an idea... why dont you keep him til summer and produce him as a hacking/RC horse and then sell him?
Look for something backed and ready to go for yourself so you can get out and doing stuff, you seem so keen just think of the fun you can have with the your girls with all your own horses this summer.
 
What I don't understand still is whether there is a connection between the low price and the conformational problem. Was the dealer was aware of the issue and wanted to move him on quickly, or is it complete coincidence? So sorry @KP nut
 
He was a reasonable price for what I thought he was: a decent unbacked youngster with eventing potential. It was only when I got him home and looked at his papers that just realised how well bred he was - his sire's stud fee is more than he cost! So he was cheap compared to his illustrious siblings! But not so cheap that he rang alarm bells till I saw his papers. The dealer knew his breeding though so yes I think all the initial vagueness was to gloss over his breeding.
 
What a horrible and dissapointing situation for you to be in. I don't know what I would do, but here is a virtual hug and glass of red wine. Hope you find a clear way forward soon.xxx
 
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