Improving my rising trot

Calder

Active Member
Jan 26, 2006
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Oxford
Hi,

Perpetual novice here: I'm returning to riding (and to NR) after several years off due to work pressures, and am wondering why I ever stopped. I absolutely love it, and am (I think) making good progress at a dressage-oriented yard on a very sweet 16.5hh horse (not the one in my avatar) who has had an impressive career: he is getting on a little now, but usually goes well for me and is suitable for my experience (walk, trot, canter: learning some lateral movements). I only ride once a week, which is frustrating but unlikely to change in the immediate future.

I'm pretty happy with my rate of progress, slow though it is. My goals are oriented towards dressage and hacking, perhaps on a share horse when the time is right. However, my trainer keeps pointing out a persistent problem with my rising trot. Apparently, I tend to anticipate it, and rush at it rather than going with the motion: then my lower leg goes and I tilt forward. She keeps telling me I need to relax.. but that's not always the easiest thing to consciously do. She notices I tend to do better without stirrups as then I *have* to go with the movement, but that's not a long-term solution for either of us! She also speculates that I over-think it, as I do better when I have something else to think about such as when I'm on a school figure or leg-yielding.

I do think I'm getting better and that this may be a matter of practice, which is hard to come by in one lesson a week, so I'm keen to maximise the benefit of my riding time by going in with the right mindset. Does anyone have any tips, such as visualisations, that help you to go with the flow?

Regards,
Calder
 
I think sometimes people over do the rising trot, they think to much about standing up and sitting down rather than letting the horse do the work and just controlling your motion when the horse pops you out of the saddle.
If you are better when busy then keep doing lots until your body builds more muscle memory for it, then as you go back to thinking about it, well you shouldn't need to think about it so much :p
 
I find thinking 'forward, back' with your pelvis is more effective than the traditional 'up, down' in keeping you in rhythm. You really don't need to rise very high either - and the forward back helps you not rise so high, naturally.

Out of the saddle - yoga or pilates can really help your core strength as this will help you in the saddle. Even if you can't get to a class, there are lots of useful video's on YouTube. I found that as my core strength improved (and my hips became more flexible!) my seat improved naturally.
 
For now try to forget about rising about rising & concentrate on keeping your lower leg secure & body soft, at this stage the horse can probably give you the rise you need if you just allow yourself to go with him. I know a lot is said about the rider controlling the trot with the rise, but equally the horse can show the rider what's needed if we just allow it. Don't grip with the knees either as that will make your lower leg insecure & encourage you be tight & lose feel for what your horse is doing.

I suspect your instructor is right & you are overthinking & need to relax, but saying that will probably cause you to overthink relaxing! I find some big sighing breaths out helps, and thinking of opening my hips & checking my shoulders are down, but it's trial & error to find what works for you.
 
Thanks, all!

are your stirrups too short to begin with?

I did put them up one hole last week, and this helped.

I think sometimes people over do the rising trot, they think to much about standing up and sitting down rather than letting the horse do the work and just controlling your motion when the horse pops you out of the saddle.

Yes, I think this is my issue.

I find thinking 'forward, back' with your pelvis is more effective than the traditional 'up, down' in keeping you in rhythm. You really don't need to rise very high either - and the forward back helps you not rise so high, naturally.

Out of the saddle - yoga or pilates can really help your core strength as this will help you in the saddle. Even if you can't get to a class, there are lots of useful video's on YouTube. I found that as my core strength improved (and my hips became more flexible!) my seat improved naturally.

I completely get how it's more about a little swing forward than standing up and sitting down. Part of the problem might be that my horse's saddle is quite snug for me, so I am instinctively rising in order to get clear of the pommel. And yes, I really ought to do some pilates or similar.

For now try to forget about rising about rising & concentrate on keeping your lower leg secure & body soft, at this stage the horse can probably give you the rise you need if you just allow yourself to go with him. I know a lot is said about the rider controlling the trot with the rise, but equally the horse can show the rider what's needed if we just allow it. Don't grip with the knees either as that will make your lower leg insecure & encourage you be tight & lose feel for what your horse is doing.

I suspect your instructor is right & you are overthinking & need to relax, but saying that will probably cause you to overthink relaxing! I find some big sighing breaths out helps, and thinking of opening my hips & checking my shoulders are down, but it's trial & error to find what works for you.

Thanks! Again, this is an accurate description of where I am. Some good tips for relaxing, too. I find it helps to remind myself that riding is fun.

I think I'm going to ask for some time on the lunge.
 
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Update: my last Interdressage has shed more light on this (video below).

I'm improving, but still rising too high rather than just sliding my pelvis forwards and back, and I'm losing balance on the sit. I've been playing around with my stirrup length for some weeks and have yet to settle on the ideal length. In that vidoe they are up one, but my lower leg is still unstable. I think that my position is at the root of this, as does my instructor, who is encouraging me to try to open up my hip and pull my leg back a bit (which is not easy for a not-very-flexible middle aged bloke) in order to let the weight hang down into my heel. The challenge then seems to be to rise - just a little - pause at the top of the rise; then ease back down rather than bobbing up and collapsing, as I tend to.

Do I have this roughly right? My instructor is also having me stand in the stirrups, which I can only manage for a short while due to an old injury. Can anyone recommend any other exercises for loosening the hips, drawing the leg back and holding the lower leg in place, heels down?

Thanks in advance!

 
I learned to ride as an adult and it soon became clear that different RIs (including eminent ones) have very diverse and often contradictory views on rising trot. I tried out so many in my early years that the girl who took me out hacking (where I practised between lessons) told me she never wanted me to mention rising trot again.

Much of my learning and homework was done out hacking - and if you hacked a long way in trot, you might find it helped? Out hacking there are no corners and your horse is going forward following the horse ahead. Or easier still when heading home.

Your reports and questions bear little resemblance to anything I was ever told to do. I am old, crooked and with degeneration in my back - none of that mattered. But you need to be specific about your injuries and physical limitations. I need longer stirrups to rise in trot. Longer stirrups mean your legs are hanging down either side of the horse - you can feel the swing of its rib cage (barrel). At no time did anyone mention my legs swinging about either forward or back.

The first step for us was to learn balance in the trot both through our seat and our feet. If you are best with no stirrups that probably means you need to let down your leathers. And get used to the feel of the movement in sitting trot. It is a side to side movement in your seat, not up and down. And since one gets the same movement in walk, you can try out feeling it in walk first.

After learning to feel the movement in walk and trot, our next exercise was in balance, standing in our stirrups. A week or two ago I remembered it was a long time since I have practised this and it is not that simple. Standing in your stirrups in walk is the first challenge. Then progress to trot. I once had a male RI who made me trot 10 paces sitting, 10 rising and 10 in forward seat. You are not going to rise well if you are worried about relaxing your feet and allowing your weight to rest on them.

For the rise itself, the word rise barely came into it. We were taught to ride with our hands apart and low, to imagine a ball and to roll our hips forward , rolling the ball between our hands. The movement is forwards rather than upwards. You allow the horse forward and then touch down on the saddle again - You dont sit in the saddle just touch and rise forward again.

Dont get me wrong - this classical rising trot is very different from Mary Wannless and some other trainers who use a very accentuated rise to shape the horse. Since rising trot is not much used in dressage, we were taught to control the length and speed of the trot (collection) using our legs, backs and fingers (not the height of the rise). But learning the forward roll version of rising trot does not prevent me now years later from speeding and slowing my horse by altering the height and vigor of my rise. One has many choices when riding and there are no hard and fast rules.
 
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Looking at your video i would say your knee and thighs are doing most of the work allowing your lower leg to fold backwards as you rise, your heels would be more down if the weight was in your lower leg. If you get your heels/ankle/lower leg into a good position and think about keeping that as still as possible then bring your body/pelvis forward to meet your stable lower leg. The stirrup shouldnt be a launch pad and i suspect you are bracing against it to get this degree of movement. You cant do that with no stirrups hence position automatically improves.
Being told to "ride like a cowboy" really helped me to sort a swinging lower leg at canter. It feels like i am jamming my feet way out in front when in reality it puts them at the girth and then i cant concertina myself.
 
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I had issues with leaning forward in my rising trot for ages. It really is difficult to master. If you're worried about leg position, what my instructor did for me was to tie my stirrups to the girth. This forced my leg into the right position and therefore the rest of my body. Your position really builds on your aids (legs, seat, arms, voice) being in the right place. So if one is out of line, all the others will be.When riding, think about being able to draw a straight line from your ear down through all your aids. I also find that if I shift to much weight into my toes rather than my heels, I tilt forward. Also, keeping your arms off your horse's neck and keeping your eyes and chin up do wonders for a good position. it's amazing how much they affect position when riding!
Timing your posts with the horse's motion is also difficult. I would try some sitting trot to get a feel for the horses motion at the trot. Once you have a good feel for it, try posting to it. If I'm having a hard time getting it, what I do sometimes is sit a few beats of trot before starting my posting. I hope some of my rambling helps you! Best of luck!
EDIT: I watched your video, and it looks like your lower legs are an issue. I was confused as to whether you legs were just swinging or if you kicked him every time you came down from a post. Really focus on keeping your lower leg still and quiet. Most of your weight should be down there on your heels and lower leg, not up in your hips. This will help keep your leg still.
 
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Push your heels down and also breathe for you and your horse( take nice deep breaths). Keep looking ahead and maybe try some pole work because I find that really helps me. Ask your instructor! Also do lots of transitions!!:)
 
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Thanks, Skib. I do find that as you rising trot while hacking feels different from in the school, and is a good opportunity to try things out.

3QuarterClyde, I have been fiddling with my stirrup lengths lately to try to find the optimum length. JB is relatively short in the barrel and I have long legs, so it feels (perhaps wrongly) that my legs don't engage well with him when the stirrups are too long. My problem is perhaps keeping my legs still without forcing them into a position: I like the imagery (Mary Wanless, perhaps?) of 'wet towels'.

Tiger Lily, I think I am reflexively kicking on when sitting and have been picked up on having a too 'noisy' leg. Something to work on, for sure.

horselover88 - all good advice! Interesting about the pole work.. I haven't done any in a while, but I found it helpful to do some work at collecting and extending over them. Something to think about.. And transitions!

I tend to think that the best thing would be to try to ride more than once a week, but that's not very practical for me at the moment. I do hope to have an intensive week this summer, if I can.

Thanks, all!
 
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Another thing to think about amongst all the good advice you've already recieved, is are you gripping with your knees? That would be turning your lower leg off the horse meaning there is nothing keeping your lower leg against the horse. If that's it, try relax your knees and turn them out a little (not heaps but so they arent squeezing the saddle). Heels down but don't force them as that will push your leg forward as well. Just weight in your heels.

As others have said, dont use the stirrups as a launch to stand as high as you can, you just need to come off the saddle then touch slightly then go up/forward again. Sometimes when you go up too high you are out of rhythm with the horse which will contribute to you bumping a bit and it not feeling smooth. Watch the oustide shoulder for your cues.

Standing in stirrups or in two point helps build lower leg strength as well as no stirrups.
 
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I wonder what the cause of my rising too high is? It seems to come naturally to me: is it a consequence of rising from my legs out of the stirrups rather than from my thighs (or going forwards, as Skib puts it)? My RI has suggested several of these good tips, such as standing in stirrups. Another is to hold myself at the top (or front) of the rise for just a fraction. That feels like hard work to me, perhaps more than it ought to, if I was rising correctly in the first place.. I also have a tendency to land too heavily, which can't be pleasant for JB... I'm hopeful that having a stronger lower leg under me will help with that.
 
I think you are worrying about to many different details. And the word rise is distracting you. A lot of my riding has been learned by imitation. So it might help to look at a number of Youtube videos of people trotting. That will show you different styles.
 
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Skib: watching definitely helps, which is why I alternate between private and group lessons, and like the feedback of these video dressage competitions. It's not easy to translate the words I read here, or those my instructor yells out (in the nicest possible way) to instructions to the various parts of the body involved in riding. I really think it comes down to how the body learns: nothing is 'natural' about riding, but it can hopefuly start to seem natural over time. What's amazing about riding to me is the way that the horse (who hasn't perhaps had enough of a say in this discussion) shows me how I'm carrying myself. It's truly a self-portrait, through interaction with a kind and patient dance-partner. For those of us who haven't lived a physical life, it's enchanting, as well as hard.
 
I think if you tried to rise from your thighs you'd be holding the horse with your knees not your lower leg.
Instead of rise think hover, and come not all the way thrusting with your hips but jsut forward out fo the saddle a bit. It's hard ot give advice though without being there, so listen to your instructor, I always think rising trot is one of the hardest parts of learning to ride and takes a while! But once you have it you're away!
Also is it the same horse youre riding each time? As each horse has a different trot so you might find a different horse is easier or harder as you have a natural rhythm too, which once you have mastered rising trot you kind of adjust your rising naturally but can seem weird when jsut starting out!
 
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